Lets talk tubes in Pharaoh Integrated

What are some tube rolling options for the rogue audio pharaoh integrated amp? I would like a better mid-range sound less bloat please.
I see that it has a tube preamp circuit and SS power output. I can't find which tubes it uses in the pre can you list them?
I would contact Rogue. They are very helpful and really assist you get the best out of their products. Cant go wrong with their advice. I have had two of their pre amps and three incarnations of their mono blocks since 2000 and have had nothing but great advice and service from Mark and Nick at Rogue.
How do you like the Pharaoh? What associated gear are you using with it? Obviously it sounds like it has a bloated mid-range out of the gate. I've been thinking of simplifying my setup by getting an integrated amplifier. The Pharaoh has most my wants, but I'm worried about how it'll compete with my separates which are ~3x the cost of the Pharaoh.
I have heard back from Mark at Rogue, the Pharaoh has JJ ECC802 long plate tubes. My other equipment is Tyler Acoustics Woodmere II, Oppo 105, Audioquest Bulk solid copper speaker cables, Signal cable Silver reference interconnects. I also have some hi-rez downloads on a hard drive through the Oppo. I'm not sure if bloat is the right word for the only thing not pleasant about the sound. On sound, on some female vocals it is just not right sounds overly full? could be room acoustics or cabling or poor recordings. I just thought I would start with a tube upgrade and see what that does. Any recommendations would be appreciated, thanks Walter45.
Are you sure it's fully broken in? You don't want to compensate for temporary sonic issues that may change in time. Assuming it is broken in, if you are seeking more midrange clarity, I would first try some cones or whatever gizmo you like under the Rogue and/or the Oppo. On some components, this can make more of a difference than you might imagine. IMO, cones tend to thin out the sound somewhat, which is NOT what most people around here are looking for - But it might be perfect for you. I would also check your speaker/floor interface. Spikes or disc footers may make a substantial difference in certain cases.
There are a lot of new production tubes (cheaper way to experiment than NOS) which will impart a different tone than the JJ802's, which BTW I suspect could be the cause of your impression of a mid range bloat. I used them in a couple of different amps and ultimately chose a different tube. They do have a mid-range emphasis I think. Although I don't use them, I did try some EH's and I found them fairly linear with good clarity. I do not recall any mid-range emphasis. You should hear a difference - if you don't then perhaps you should focus on other possibilities. If you do you can consider refining your search for an even better tube.
Thanks for the input, I do have brass spikes on the speakers, also ant vibration disks under the pharaoh and oppo alike. My best guess is tube rolling and/or speaker cables. I do have some room treatment in place also, home made base traps floor to ceiling in each corner as well as some acoustical foam on side walls, back wall and deflector on the ceiling (gearfoam and gearwedge) in the main reflection locations. Sometime I think it is recording related and then other time not so much. It is fairly minor bur highly annoying. again any suggestions will be very much appreciated, walter45.
Hi all, I did pull the trigger on a pair of Cifte/Mazda tubes from Upscale audio. I went for the platinum with cryo treatment. I now ask about break in, what should I expect?
How is the Pharaoh sounding with the new tubes?
Hi, I can really tell no diference with the tube swap, in fact I plan to swap back soon just to be sure. I still have the same sound on on what I would call the upper mid-range. I have gotten used to the sound by now but still think there is something not quit right. I plan to try some different speaker cables soon, probably clear-day or simular.
The JJ 802S a replica of a very special ultra low noise very long lived Telefunken tube. The 802 is a 12AU7 or Ecc82 what have you. As far as current production tubes go and your preferences I would consult Jim McShane who is a sponsor over on Audio Asylum's Tube Asylum. I know he is pretty happy with the Gold Lion tubes which are said to be on the warm side of neutral.
If you want to try nos I recommend Amperex ECC82s . In particular one formerly excellent, drop in sub, is the highly desirable 7316, which have become very expensive and widely copied (lots of fakes). Your best bet for NOS and the better subs is to rely on a good dealer.
I think you can roll the tubes and change cables till the cows come home,but I think the problem is the class D solid state section on the Pharaoh that is not in your taste.
I use a tube pre with Ss amp. With my system it is very easy to evaluate any change and characteristics of input tube,rectifier tube, cables sprk and I/cs. That said I use the same input and output tube as your integrated and I have many different brands current and nos including jj 802s . I recommend based on your description that you try Siemens ecc82s a far different sound than the jjs and should get you closer to what you seek. Best.
A ton of time has passed since I started this thread. I have lived and learned a little in the past year. First off I got Jim Smith's how to get better sound for Xmas last year and have found that the sound I did not care for is gone with proper set-up of my speakers. Wow what a difference the muddy, crappy mid-range is completely absent. So now I am thinking to add twin subs to the mix anyone done this and if so how did you like the results? Looking at Gallo TR-3D or JL E110. Any opinions? Thanks Walter
Walter good for you. Always optimize the physical setup of what you have and in many cases that will eliminate the need to change gear. That means speaker placement and orientation maybe some simple room treatments isolating components to keep noise levels minimal etc. so many ways to tweak sound without spending a dime.
I disn't realize that you hade already rolled your tubes before I last posted. I am happy to hear the room acoustics played a big role. I am a tube roller so I also credit the tubes you tried. I should have asked what you really wanted to change most. I am primarily a tube roller employing old stock tubes, but do appreciate that recent production tubes are very good. Frankly, in retrospect, I am a little surprised the ECC802S didn't work for you in the first place.
Heard both Pharoah and Sphinx recently at my dealer. Both were the real deal at their price points.

Have never heard a bad demo of Rogue gear there over teh years. Rogue and ARC are his big amp lines. He said Pharoah was his favorite bar none. It is actually my original dealer's grandson, who is less of a pure classical/acoustic music fan than his pop, running the business these days.
I have a Rogue Pharaoh and it's the best amp I've owned to date. It totally embarrassed 11k worth of SS MacIntosh pre and power! The superb phono stage and headphone amp are icing on the cake for this excellent piece of gear. Highly recommended!'
I certainly love mine. I haven't had the to opportunity to compare it to much as this was mt first purchase of anything remotely hi-end. Thanks for all the comments, I may still try a different pair of tubes just to be sure it can't be better, Walter.