It seems that many folks selling these DACs are selling in order to move up to a higher model in the Lampi line. Quite a devoted following for these DACs out there.
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For the price, it will be hard to.
I know one Trinty owner who also got a Lampi afterwards, for example. (The TOP Lampi)
I also know another who owns a Big7, Hugo, MSB stack and Direct stream...and guess what? He is getting another Big7 (the HeadDac) this week!
So please tell me what these better Dacs are...as I have heard many Dacs myself and am puzzled by your response.
Such as?You have to ask the owners selling their Lamps. I don't own one and have no plans to buy one anytime soon.
For the price, it will be hard to.Sure but there are NO cases where owners replaced a Lamp with another DAC?
I heard Lamp many times and at one time, had one in my system for several weeks. Very good SQ but didn't pull the trigger.
Didn't know Lamp has a 100% owner loyalty. Did you get info from Edward Snowden?
Recall the OP question.
Obviously the best answer would be to explain (the overwhelming reason) why the relatively large number and it's clear it's because of upgrades.
It is also clear like with all Dacs that some move to other brands and some change focus altogether (DSP/DRC, back to vinyl, etc).
HOWEVER, given that Lampi has 2 new top range products, Big7 and Golden Gate, the bulk of change rationale is the people moving up the ladder. This is easily confirmed by asking Fred/Rob and Lukasz. No need to ask Snowden. LoL
So while you are not wrong in the bsolute, you dont really address the main concern of the OP, which is what is driving the trend he sees and why the timing now.
I think it speaks to their pretty-greedy business model.
I am not speaking out of school here either but rather speaking what is obvious for everyone to see.
I am surprised I have not heard more criticism from the loyal Lampi owners.
This approach is successful and that is what a business is supposed to do but high-End audio is supposed to be different.
Why is it supposed to be different well partly because their products cost more than some automobiles and because we all talk and converse on forums like this to keep them honest. That is exactly what I am trying to do here but to be fair many other Hi-End companies get this and are much much more cognitive of this and are way more supportive and loyal to their owner base than this, what appears to be a pretty greedy European company.
Sorry but that's what they are !!!!
I am more interested in looking out for the currant owner's of Lampi's and fellow Agon member's and speaking about this and raising the level of awareness of this lets make as much as we can marketing approach to the potential buyer of their "NEW" products and for the consumer to think about this when they give Lampi their hard earned money.
Now this is to the potential of buyer of "NEW" ones. Not my fellow Agoners or owners who want to buy/sell used ones from another member that's no different than all of the products.
Rather than adding consistent upgrades and improving and supporting their current DAC models and offering reasonably priced increases in performance they chose to "always" come out with a new model DAC and this hurts the value of the older models for sure and hurts the people that invested a ton of money in their products and their company. The model life cycle for a what a Lampi cost is "WAY" to short and the reason I chose a different company to invest in and purchase from was partly due to their actually caring about their owners and they don't just dump on them just make more money.
I just bought a new Bricasti M1 DAC that has had constant and cheap or free upgrades for years. A life cycle that actually takes their owners that investing in their company and products into consideration and take pride in their owner base and is always evolving the product and making it better.
A perfect example is the newer Bricasti M1 Linear Power Supply for the digital domain they came out with that was a huge upgrade in SQ. This was a significant Hardware upgrade that really impacted the SQ substantially and some say changed the DAC. Do you know what they charged for this huge upgrade? $150.00! Do you think Bricasti made any money on that? No but they certainly support their owners and that impressed the heck out of me.
Look - no one in their right mind is going to criticize the Sound Quality or build quality of the Lampi products. Their products are amazing and sound incredible and they offer all kinds of ways to customize and improve current models and upgrade them and do all kinds of things and they are some of the best sounding digital in the world that is not in contention here but make no mistake they are greedy as heck IMO and once you a buy a new model from them you count on them constantly working on the next one so your model prematurely drops in value. That is part of the package with Lampi but they sound and are built incredible. If you have all kinds of extra money and don;t care if the life cycle is super short and the value vs the retail and sound quality drops much to quick then have a blast you may get the best sounding digital money can buy. For me I chose Bricasti not only because of the support but on top of it I liked a lot better than the Big7.
Huh? Gotta say that last post doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What is the big issue there? That they have a lot of models and offer customers multiple customization options? Sounds like a good thing to me. They should be concerned with keeping their customers happy, and I hear very few negative comments from customers. As best I can tell, Lampi keeps a pretty good resale value.
Wow, Fsmith, you really are misguided,
The Big7 was $11k full retail, and the $6K you speak of was for the 2 boxL7, less than $9K retail. They are NOT the same! 2nd hand B7s are usually around $8K.
Lampi does not force ANYONE TO upgrade and many are satisfied with their 3 year old Level 3 Dacs. Lukasz does not make new models for money, hell it causes some amounts of complaints. He does it out of a passion to improve his creations. He cant help himself from tinkering.
Greedy??? Hahahaha that is funny, as I have met him 3 times now and have been to Warsaw.He is far from making a fortune from this endeavor.
He does not have to offer $150 psi upgrades as they are build waaay over specced in the first place. Courier costs is more than that in any case.
Just enjoy the music and dont succumb to nervosa. Bricasti should sound good, but not sure it can touch the Big 7, or even a maxxed out B5....to my ears.
Im glad youve grown to love your Briscati and am sorry we were unable to take it in on trade for a Big 7 when you contacted me on February 24, 2015... I think what youve said about our organization is unfair, ill informed and unnecessarily malicious.
You havent heard more criticism from the loyal lampi owners because we bust our butts to support them long after their purchase is made. As I write this reply, I am awaiting delivery of a Level 2 DAC which was built in 2010 for significant updates at a price that has its loyal owner tickled pink!
It is true we have multiple levels at multiple price points, but isn't this normal for an audio company? This is common practice in most markets be it automobiles, clothing, softwarewhatever. Unlike other markets though, we go out of our way to make sure customers remain supported and updates are performed at affordable, sometimes even subsidized, prices to please our loyal customer base.
Good luck in your endeavors,
LampizatOr North America
P.S The base price of the Big 7 is $10,500 not $13,000.
Ricred1 I sent him that email before I even got my Bricasti. I was actually interested in the Big7 before the Bricasti as I noted in my statement above that my criticism is of the new products and their very short life cycle because they drop so much from new. Heck they are GREAT deals used and incredible sounding DACs which supports my point that they drop and prematurely because the company is always coming out with new ones because that is what they do. I had a deal in principal on a loaded up / low hour one box Big7 for $6200 in CT. It had the build sheet that Lampi provides that had almost everything but an extra digital input that could have been added I think but wasn't going by memory. The dealer told me it was a $13k retail DAC with all the extra's as they offer a lot of options. He told me it was only a few months old. Well I lost out on that deal my fault I should have pulled the trigger quicker and that dealer told me he had a Bricasti and they were way better and this and that. I was trading my DAC and made a deal with another dealer and was kind of bummed I didn't get the Big7 because it was so low compared to a new one retail and thought they were good values used and before I heard the Bricasti I still wanted the Big7. I got the Bricasti and love it. Couldn't be happier. This thread was asking why so many Lampi's out there? I think because the company is greedy and could care less about the people that just bought new ones when they have super short cycles and they come out with another new top model and the people that just bought the last model oh well. This is just my opinion. I have heard many Lampi DACs over years and I have always thought their sound and build are top notch some of the very best. Great products but I think they are greedy and I recommend to anyone looking for a Lampi DAC to buy a used or demo one and save a ton god knows theres a ton to choose from because buying new from these guys is gonna leave a mark on depreciation but hey some people keep them a long time or don't care and I appreciate that.
That seems to be the norm on forums these days. Too many people with hidden agendas. Once a particular brand gets its 15 minutes of fame, the jealous vultures come out to bash. It seems to be regular as clockwork.
My advice, ignore the banter and have a listen to a few contenders and make up your own mind. Nothing is perfect for everyone, so it pays to examine a few options.
FSmith, to impute greedy motive without any proof or understanding is just plain wrong.
Please enjoy your Bricasti and stop slandering people online.
I just smacks of ulterior motive to attack these guys for not accomodating you when you were trying to work a deal that was not accepted. Is this your idea of payback? It is unbecoming.
May be, Fsmithjack is not using the proper language, but there is some truth in some of his assertions. I also think Lampizator comes up too quick with newer models that I personally will not buy a new Lampi. I will always look for a used/demo because it's like cell phones these days - you buy one today, and there's a new one/better one tomorrow. I think digital in general is moving really fast and people have to use their heads/pockets wisely before they jump ship.
Wisnon... You are so wrong I said it was my fault I didn't get the DAC. That dealer is a great dealer I have no problem with them or any dealer. God knows how hard business has been and is on them. I support the dealer. He is a US dealer and has my support as do they all. Don't go twisting stuff and making stuff up. That helps nobody or anything.
My shots were directed directly at the Eastern European Company that in my opinion too quickly releases new top flight DACS and that makes for a shorter life cycle that in turn hurts the agoners pocket books that purchased them new. Its pretty obvious what my ulterior motive is. That is to call them out for this and it is my opinion not slander. That said in all fairness I did know that the use of the word Greedy would garner more attention but that was the point.
My support is to my fellow agoners not to some well to do eastern European company that in all fairness deserves some criticism here in my opinion for this approach. Greedy may have been a little over the top but its not that bad either We are a transparent, liberal western society (well we like to think we are) that pays attention to these types of things. No earth shattering concepts here
I said how great their DACS are and how great they are made and how great they sound. I said they may be the best digital in world and that I wanted to buy one myself. I said how great of a deal they are used as well and recommended them as best buy used or demo.
I have every right to question this companys short life cycle of their top DAC's? They are not above reproach. Greedy is not that bad of a word... The problem is that a lot of what I say rings true
This is a forum for members to give their opinions. The member asked why there are so many out there? Fair question and I am sure it can be answered many ways. Because so popular people want to upgrade, because the newer model is hot? Because tubes are awesome, because this or that. I was giving my opinion that doesnt mean its the right answer its just what I think.
If enough people read this and it gets to the owner of this company (highly doubtful) and its gets him to think about this (even more doubtful) a little then great maybe it helps an owner in the future. I am out for the owners, the members, my comrades, and the people paying for them new and taking the deprecation hits. That's my motive or even better if an agoner thinking about buying a new one thinks wow he has a point then even better. This is not just Lampi I think companies need to take their owners and people that invested in their products into consideration when they are real quick to come out with a new or drop their prices way below what they were just to sell me. I understand they need to make money but there needs to be line where the customers that recently bought the equipment enters into the conversation and IMO Lampi deserves criticism here and even though I was little brash my motives are anything but unclear
You are free to love what you want and I have no qualm with that, but what I don't appreciate is the personal assault! The very first thing my co-distributor and I did when we took over Lampi sales in North America was substantially lower the retail pricing structure to make our products accessible to REAL people!
In achieving the above, we moved to a direct distribution model and have no dealers! I don't know what some "dealer in Connecticut" told you but they are NOT affiliated with us.
You should know that Generation 4 was around for THREE (3) YEARS before it was replaced by the generation 5 (current), YEARS not months and we are still MORE THAN HAPPY to work on and update legacy products. As stated I have a customer's long discontinued Level 2 DAC from 2010 coming in for upgrades right now!
Retail pricing for the 2-box L7, was $9500 in the US and 6900 in Europe before it was discontinued due to overwhelming customer preference for the Big 7. Even maxed out when the Euro was at its peak, you're talking in the ~11k range.
When I see my customers I'm greeted with handshakes and hugs and I think the vast majority regard me as generous.
Fred there was no personal assault on you!!
Ya you are kind of collateral damage here I guess but it wasn't pointed at you at all. I was thinking of you as not in this being the dealer but your the US Distributor so I guess although it wasn't meant toward you i guess you end up with some unintended shrapnel wounds out of this.
Sorry bro my point was to call out the former soviet union eastern block partner that just keeps popping out these top of the line dacs. I love us dealers and by seeing how many of these DACs are out there you must be doing ok so not sure you qualify as a struggling hi-fi dealer that I love to root for and support but you are known for great service and you are good guys and I didn't mean for you to catch the collateral damage but being the US distributor for Lampi im sure your gonna be ok but please know and my wording shows this that the shot was intended at Poland not NJ.
It's a hi fi audio forum for audiophiles to share their thoughts, ideas and opinions and he must have known at some point someone was gonna say something. You are right he is lucky to have such a good partner in the US doing all the heavy lifting or there probably would have been a lot more of this.
I have heard a number of Lampizators at shows--most recently the 7 at the NY Stereophile show. What a remarkable sounding piece. If Mr. Fikus constantly tinkers to upgrade, so be it. If he comes out with a new one every year, so be it. That's how the latest units became so good now and how future units will be even better. Don't own one--but maybe someday if I'm lucky. I would not attribute any worse intentions on his part than I would at someone like Gabriel Caelin at Shunyata. It seems every 2 years I have to trade up my conditioner or pcs cause he keeps fairly rapidly making them better. That's cause he is never done--although I can stop at any time and be happy with what I have.
Lampizator is not a gear flipper dac...its a destination purchase.
If you are going into it thinking resale value, you just dont get it. Simply tagging on the lable, DSD ready is NOT going to cut it against Lampi DSD.
Elberoth on 3 separate forums has posted about his DSD Only Big 7, this is a guy who also owns a Trinty Dac ($50K). AL has a $35K MSB Platinum stack and has TWO Level 7 Lampizators, as well as a Hugo and a Direct stream. Guess which is his favourite Dac. Bruce Brown from Puget Sound changed out his PBD Dac for a Level 4 DSD only and is thinking of getting a L7 DSD only. Finally I know of someone swapping out a dCs stack for a Golden gate Lampi. Lampi plays in these leagues for a LOT less money.
Unless you tried it, you just dont know. And if resale value is your concern then continue on the merry-go-round.
R&D and superb service costs (HUGE investment) money and if there is no margin, then there is no business. Attribute the good deal on 2nd hand market to people getting bitten and trding up, becuse the want MORE of the same. You cant upgrade a signal tube Dac to a DHT dac. The topology is just not compatible, so in essence the B7 shared the name as say a big 5, but they are fundamentally different.
Different models (levels) different price points. What's not to understand? Why attribute a noun such as greed to the process.
I know it may be difficult to believe, but one of the primary reasons entrepreneurs start a business is to make money. If you dont want to pay their prices or dont prefer their products over others, then dont buy them! I just dont understand the need to rant about a companys prices, business model, or really about anything but their support before, during and after the sale.
A recent Audiogon post about Synergistic Research and their cables had essentially the same tone as this one. A bashing of S/Rs business model; again, not about the quality of their products, nor their support before, during, or after the sale. Why bother? I really dont know. Your guess is as good as mine.
So speaking of guessing I'll make a few. Perhaps the basher: cant afford the company's products; they prefer another product and dont want to feel that the one they own, isn't, by comparison, as good; they're a competitor (either a manufacturer or distributor/retailer) and bashing another companys products makes their's look better by comparison; they cant stand to see someone have something that they dont - i.e. a product, or in the case of a business, success; they're trying to save everyone from themselves by telling the world about the big bad wolf that if someone buys, theyre being had; they really want one of the products but cant, or dont want to pay the asking price, so in their own mind, they must find some way to bash the product by making it seem inferior....not because it is, but because of all the relevant and irrelevant things, they don't like their business model ad infinitum.
Whats to be learned from a thread such as this? I dont really know, but my guess is that there is some hidden agenda, or a neurotic need to vent about life and picking on something like an intangible company or product, is far easier than undergoing some hard soul searching, counseling etc
Lastly, my motivation for replying is that I'm a Lampi owner. And no, I don't need to be saved from myself and Lukasz' business practices. As an extremely satisfied, happy owner, Lampizator's business practices are ALL first rate, just as is the DAC that I recently bought!
In the future if I choose to opt for an upgrade, the decision will obviously be mine. Before the sale I didn't need to be protected from that possibility, nor obviously after the sale, do I need to be protected. If I needed to be warned, no amount of protecting would be sufficient; because I would sooner or later take a dump in my mess kit, with or without reading forum posts about why I shouldn't!!
Wanted to reply to this above statement made by Mrmb but couldn't. I mean no disrespect just too hard to follow and it made my brain ache...
On another note I did read up a bit on the Lampi US Distributor and can say they seem like a real first class operation and my criticism of the manufacture was in no way intended toward them. I root for folks like that...
Ploand ALWAYS hated the USSR and that is why Lech Walensa could lead the Solidarity free trade union to wrest Poland from Soviet domination. Poland STILl does not get along with Russia. They suffered at the hands of the Nazis and later the Soviets and so want no part of either.Before the next US presidential election, Soviet will probably absorb Poland. Maybe Czech ... all the old eastern bloc nations. Iran gets mid eastern nations. Chance in a LIFETIME!!!
Do not get all this DSD bit. It is native DSD that has the great recordings. Unfortunately, in my view, there is nothing worth listening to in native DSD. The other raved about is up scaled. That is available in any hd format. My experience not an improvement. If you love organ music you are set with DSD. ✌️
Many people are doing needledrops at DSD128. I have a few albums so far and they are wonderful.
Many are swearing about the quality of PCM upsampled (with HQ Player...not by hardware or inferior software, BUT HQ PLAYER only) to high rate DSD and say its the Bomb. People like Elberoth who own Trinty dacs and used to own MSB stacks and have access to anything they want.
Thinking that only native DSD recording is the only thing worth pursuing on the DSd from is soooo 2014. LoL
HQP is the new black. Go over to computeraudiophile and check out the bleeding edge.
This is why people are seeking out the absolute BEST DSD plyback they can find.