Lamm LL2 w/ Pass labs

Anyone out there running a Lamm LL2deluxe with Pass Labs X.5 series amps..thoughts?..thanks
The LL2 Deluxe's high output impedance into lower frequencies could result in bass roll-off if used with the relatively low input impedance Pass Labs amp.

Read Stereohile's test measurements for the LL2 Deluxe for details.
Hi, I found the LL2 Deluxe to be very dark with a Tenor 150 amp.
what does a Tenor amp have to do with how Lamm sounds w/Pass????..
FWIW, the Lamm L2 Reference is an excellent match with Pass Labs amps because of its low output impedance.
thanks but the reference is out of my price range
Do you already own the Pass amp?
Just a reference....The Tenor 150 amp IMO is pretty neutral. The Pass IMO is a tad on the dark side.
The Pass IMO is a tad on the dark side.
Underdog (System | Threads | Answers)
Not my XA-60.5. About as transparent (neutral) a solid state amp as I have heard.

My point is that I think the Lamm is very dark and syrupy.
My point is that I think the Lamm is very dark and syrupy.
Underdog (System | Threads | Answers)
Oh. I would never had gotten that meaning from your post, so thanks for the explanation.

I owned a Lamm LL2 Deluxe. I thought it had absolutely no color of it's own, yet was a chameleon with tube rolling. I would have never characterized the LL2 Deluxe as dark and syrupy, so perhaps the different impressions we have result from the tubes that were installed in the preamps we heard.

The preamp with stock tubes was lacking some top end extension, and the bass was just a touch bloomy. With Mullard Backburn 12AU7 and Mullard Blackburn 6922 tubes, my LL2 Deluxe was controlled and extended from top to bottom with just a slight touch of softening of the highs (which were outstandingly extended and clear). Swapping in Siemens CCA (or any Siemens 6DJ8 variant) upped the neutrality quotient to a crystalline level. I used it with a Moscode 401HR, VAC Phi 110/110, and a few other amps that I had in-house to audition during the course of my time with it.

Interesting how we audio nuts can have such diverse opinions of the same components.
We are all impressed I'm sure. The guy asked for opinions. I gave him mine. At least I am not afraid to have one.
We are all impressed I'm sure. The guy asked for opinions. I gave him mine. At least I am not afraid to have one.
Underdog (System | Threads | Answers)

I've offended you. Sorry. It wasn't intentional.

I was simply trying to understand your point, and I appreciate your explanation.
well, that got alot of my questions answered...Again any users with Lamm LL2 and Pass
My suggestion would be to ask Kent English of Pass Labs.

Perhaps include the impedance specs of the LL2 preamp that were published in the Stereophile review I linked to above.

Good luck.
Lamm LL2 (NOS Mullard Tubes) with Pass Aleph 0 is a impressive match. Not dull, not dark, not slow, not colored.
One of the best - true sounding - combinations ever listened to.
I've owned the LL2 and the XA.5, not the X.5 and based on my listening to Pass Amps, I would think the would match well in terms of sound because the LL2 would add just a touch of midrange warmth and bloom that would beneift the X.5 series. It might or might not be too much of a good thing with the XA.5, though I suspect I would like it. If I'm reading the specs right the 250 ohm "corrected" output impedance should be fine with the 20kohm input impedance of the X.5s.
At the risk of beating this dead horse, my concern about output impedance was due to Stereophile test measurements which I linked to above. John Aktinson observed:

"The LL2's output impedance was a low 245 ohms in the midrange and treble, this rising to 3.3k ohms at 20Hz."

The rise to 3.3k ohms at 20Hz is the problem area that could cause bass roll-off if used with low input impedance amps.

Atkinson continued to say:

"Provided it is used into high-impedance loads, the Lamm LL2 offers enormous dynamic range. "

So, I just wanted to offer some data for my statements. The LL2 Deluxe might sound exceptional with the Pass Labs, but I would only buy a used LL2 to test the theory. I'd hate to buy a new one only to find it didn't match well, and then lose my shirt upon resale.
A valid concern, I was not aware that the LL2 had such a wide swing in output impedance in the highs.

06-30-08: Pubul57
A valid concern, I was not aware that the LL2 had such a wide swing in output impedance in the highs.

Actually, it's the lows...20Hz (not 20Khz). Hence, the concerns about bass roll-off.
ok..what about the LL2 with a Mac 402
The MC402 has even lower input impedance than the Pass Labs with specs of 10,000 ohms (unbalanced) and 20,000 ohms (balanced), so I would think if the LL2 Deluxe has potential impedance matching issues with Pass Labs, then it would have more significant issues matching with the MC402.
ok...lets try this..what tube preamp in the under 5 grand used market works well with pass..thanks
Atma-Sphere MP-3. Retail for linestage $4550. Retail with phono option. $5150. The MP-1 works very nicely with Pass Labs, so I suspect the MP-3 would as well.

Audio Horizons TP2.1. It has an output impedance of less than 180 ohms. It has a starting retail price of $2095 and increases with options.

Modwright LS 36.5 has an output impedance of 110 ohms. Retails for $4995.

All are conceivably ideal matches for the Pass Labs.

I have heard neither the Audio Horizons TP2.1 nor Modwright LS 36.5 with Pass Labs, so I cannot make a recommendation. I'm only mentioning them as possibilities because of their low output impedance specs.
Actually the MP-3 without phono stage is $3950.

However, price increases are scheduled for 9-1-08.

Dealer disclaimer.
Shoot, buy the MP-3 with phono before 9/1/08, and it's like getting the phono for free.

Audio Horizons charges $895 for the phono option.

I don't believe the Modwright LS 36.5 has an onboard phono option.
thanks,none of those excite me...lets try solid state preamps in the 5k range used
Well, if you are now asking about any brand SS preamp for a Pass amp, the obvious choice it would seem to me is a Pass preamp. You can get the Pass X0.2 for about 4K here on Audiogon and it should be an ideal match for any Pass X.5 series amp. I have the X1 with the XA160 monos and the match is very good as would be expected.
Tvad- would Modwright work with Pass? i think its probably too high output impedance.
The Modwright LS 36.5 has an ideal output impedance to match the Pass Labs, IMO. That's why I mentioned it as a good match three posts above.
i meant the 9.0SE

The 9.0SE's output impedance is ~600ohms. Pass Labs' single ended input impedance is 20kOhms.

I don't think this is a good fit. You'd want to see an input impedance of 30kOhms or higher.
Sorry i use this add! I am using Lamm ml1! Can I use lamm LL2 with this amp? Is this a good match to hood jbl 4344 speaker? Serious for your advance ! I am buying a Lamm 2 on audiogon! Thank you!
@ Natusound, Atleast you are using a great speaker , JBL!
Natusound, yes you can use the LL2 with an ML 1. I used that combo for a while (had the LL2 as a loaner while my regular pre was being repaired) and the sound was excellent. It'll work fine with any Lamm amp.