Lamm L2 Reference tube recommendation

Any tubes other than stock recommended for the L2 powersupply?

Thanks in advance
6542ef30 7d45 46e5 bfe1 cd32002b6a1bmantis007
I'm not the only one that has one of these am I? ;-)
There is no substitute for the Russian 6C19P regulator(unfortunate, as the regulator of a tube pre-amp or power amp's power supply can yield much in the way of sonic improvement). The voltage reference tube(5651) can be found in a Raytheon, Sylvania, RCA, National, GE- but stick with the 5651 as it's voltage is 87 and the 5651A's(or WA) is 85.5. They are cheap enough($5 to $10 NOS) that you can try different ones to see if there's any difference in sound for fun. You might try a Mullard CV2573, and see if that lends a different flavor to the sound.
I have the L1 and the power supply has a similar tube complement, 12AX7, 6C19, 5651, but not 12AX3.
I have found that there can be small changes with different 5651's. See what you can find and give it a try.
thanks for the recommendations ;-) I'll give them a try.
Vladimir knows best how to voice his equipment and uses tubes speciific for that purpose. My advice is to go with what he uses as it works best in his gear.
good point Oneobgyn. I was curious because I changed out the single 6922/6dj8 in the M1.2's. I used Amperex Bugle Boy's that made a nice difference - more air and detail etc.. ;-)
07-02-08: Oneobgyn
Vladimir knows best how to voice his equipment and uses tubes speciific for that purpose.

I'm not sure about that. Vladimir may select his tubes based on how he likes the component to sound, or he might select tubes based on availability. When I asked Lamm about retubing a L2 Reference, I was told most of the tube types were sourced from several different manufacturers (Sylvania, GE, RCA). Only the 6C19 Russian tube was limited to one manufacturer.

When I changed the stock tubes to Mullard Blackburns in my Lamm LL2 Deluxe, the sound and performance of the preamp improved substantially.

BTW, tubes for the L2 are incredibly inexpensive. I recently retubed a L2 Reference for less than $50 with brand new tubes purchased from E-Bay sellers. Lamm wanted about five times more for tubes purchased through them.
Tvad said, " he might select tubes based on availability." I'd say seven out of ten times that, and price are the primary factors in a manufacturer's choice of stock tubes.
I bought a pair of Mullard NOS 12AX7's for my ML 2.1 (circa 1957). The sound was good but very mellow and laid back. Cymbals sounded like cymbals when I put back the chosen tubes by Vladimir. Trust me he knows how to voice his components and IMO tube rolling will produce different sound. What the listener needs to ask of himself is "Am I hearing something different or am I hearing something better?"
What the listener needs to ask of himself is "Am I hearing something different or am I hearing something better?"
Oneobgyn (System | Reviews | Answers)
Excellent point.

In my case, I heard something preferable.

I have read on several occasions that Vladimir does not voice his components by listening, but that he designs by testing and measuring. This comment has been repeated in several reviews.

The man is a genius

I had opportunity to have on loan his newly released ML3 Signature amps and IMHO there isn't a better amp in the galaxy. Now if I had $140K lying around I would buy a pair in a heartbeat
Oneobgyn, somehow I think $140k for you is more an issue of will than wallet.

Vladimir certainly designs some excellent gear. No argument from me there.
My mantra has always been "let our ears and wallets guide us". Having said that I just would not (even if I had that kind of coin) shell out that much money. To have heard the ML3 amps however is almost like having an out of body experience
I feel guilty, I never tried that in my L2R but I am interested in your results
I rolled some RCA 12AX3 in place of the stock Sylvania 12AX3. I thought I detected a slightly more natural presentation with less grain, but I could be fantasizing. The difference was not profound by any means. Nothing like what I experienced when I installed Mullard tubes in the LL2 Deluxe in place of the stock tubes.
The thing is there is swapping signal tubes and swapping power supply tubes. The LL2 is a tubed pre with a tubed signal path. The L1 and L2 are solid state with tubed power supplies. So in a well designed circuit, there is less of a difference with swapping tubes in the ps.
But in my case with the L1, the difference was easy to identify albeit small.
Nutella, would you discuss which tubes you prefer and why?

I am trying to eliminate as much grain as possible.

I realized after rereading Rodman9999's post that I installed an RCA 5651A rather than a 5651.
I dont think you'll find much improvement tube rolling with the L2. The most important thing is to check the voltage output of the power supply as specified in the manual. Slight deviations, usually loss in power will make it sound dark and veiled. Unfortunately I found myself making this adjustment weekly and replacing the tube monthly making it too high maintenance for my taste.
Between the RCA and Raytheon, I prefer the Raytheon. It is just slightly more natural in its presentation. The difference is small.
well, I finally got the L2 yesterday. DHL lost the PS crate but were finally able to locate it ;) The pre came with Dumont 12BE3's, a RCA 5651 and a Sylvania 12ax6wa. Once I get my Innersound xover repaired I'll be able to check it out ;)
DHL strikes again!! I believe the have a hire-the-handicapped-gorilla corporate policy. Happy listening!
Rod, its funny you say that. Both days the DHL girl delivered she said she couldn't lift the package because she hurt her back. I had to unload it! Why would a company send out someone that can't even do the job? Unbelievable!
Mr M- A handicapped female gorilla? LOL! They delivered a package to me once, and I wasn't home: The box was 10x10x10 and the space between my storm and front door is 7". I had to repair the storm door, because they forced it closed with the box between. Then they had the nerve to try and charge me extra for residential delivery after I paid shipping to the seller(they've tried that 4 times- never collected). I no longer deal with sellers that insist on shipping via DHL.
I replaced the stock Sylvania 12AX3 with RCA. The sound seems significantly more organic with less bite, yet not lacking in any detail. More midrange and upper bass warmth.

I'm not trying to be a smart guy but could you explain to me what "sound seems significantly more organic with less bite means"
Sure. The sound with the stock tubes sounded a bit sterile and mechanical, with an emphasis in the treble (the bite). The sound with the RCA 12AX3 has less treble emphasis, and perhaps a bit of emphasis in the mids (more organic and less sterile).

The changes are subtle, but easier on my ears.

Anyhow, I like it better.

sometimes "waxing poetic" can be confusing
I'm not proficient at audio speak.
so what exactly are the stock tubes? I bought mine used but it was supposedly sent to Lamm for a full re-tube - I listed above what it came with. Just curious :-]
When I inquired about re-tubing, Elina Lamm told me they used a variety of manufacturers for each position, so I don't believe the brand makes any difference to Lamm.

My 12AX3 were Sylvania.