Has anyone tried the ERGO (Enhanced Room Geometry Optimization) from KRK Systems?
Some dealers are suggesting using this unit in their listening rooms to correct room issues in order to get better sound. Originally created for recording studios but apparently people have been having great results in their listening rooms with this unit.
Been looking into it, but concerned about possible latency issues. (time it takes signal to go thru unit) Not an issue if using unit full range, but problematic if using just for subwoofers (not intended use)List is around $799 & uses licensed lyngdorf technology. I'm using velodyne sms-1 sub-eq's now (3), but doesn't correct for time, just freq. aberations. Reluctant to run SOTA tube components thru a $500 processor box(Full range). SVS/Audyssey has competing product, but you have to use a AV pre with digital delays (or outboard digital delay) to sync up with main speakers due to 7.5 ms latency of processor. Ergo operates up to 500hz., not sure about adyssey. Have e-mail in to tech support at KRK about latency of ergo using analog ins & outs, but haven't recieved a reply yet.
I'm not concerned about my present set-up since the ERGO would be between my pre-amp and power amp and my sub connects to the pass-through port of my power amp. But what if I were to ever upgrade my power amp and the new one would not have a pass-through port.
Used as intended the Ergo shouldn't have latency issues,but used as an improvised subwoofer room correction device & not in the signal path of the main speakers, I would assume the 1024 tap FIR filter takes some time processing the signal & a few ms of time delay of the sub vs mains. The JBL looks interesting (& even cheaper). The manual isn't clear about the details of the RMC correction technology (how many filters etc), but looks more suited to use as a subwoofer "controller/EQ". Room treatment is probably best starting point. I've been experimenting with 8 12" subs (infinity prelude mts)divided between 2 channels at various positions & heights in the room (16x21x8'tall)in 3 zones controlled by 3 velodyne sms-1 controller/EQ's attempting to overwhelm modes (confuse them at least)& smooth overall response. None of the subs are "working" very hard with this configuration & more subs seems to smooth out room response.
Harman has the BASSQ on their synthesis/performance web page, but customer support says it never came to market. Manual is on line & some AVS members claim to have one. Manual isn't at all clear as to what type of "processing/EQ" it's up to. Sean Olive's research indicates the "listening panel" doesn't "prefer" flat "in-room" response anyway, so working my way thru Floyd Toole's book to gain more insight
I just returned mine. I tried it on a whim -- easy to find from the big name online music stores w/return policy. I was excited at the notion of room correction utilizing the famous Lyngdorf Room perfect technology for $500, and hoping for distinct improvement in my rather bright and slap-happy room. But for whatever reason it boosted the mid-bass and bass WAY up. There was no way the room was 'corrected'. In fact, it was intolerable. It apparently thought my room acoustics weren't muddy enough. I tried multiple times with different mic positions, etc -- same result every time. And then the software stopped working properly. I gave up.
I read another post in another forum where someone had a similar problem. I'm guessing it's an anomoly since there have been many successful reports. Ah well, back to good ol fashioned wall panels
I haven't measured my room -- that would be the hard way. I was hoping the KRK would just do its thing. The room suffers primarily from a lot of reflective surfaces and open area creating slap echo. Addtionally I have vaulted ceilings that go to 12'. I've treated upper corners, rear wall (since my head is close to it), behind speakers. First reflection points, ceiling are likely next. I'm addressing the issue more seriously now that I'll be doing the work.
It only addresses/corrects up to 500Hz, so if brightness is your issue than you need to look elsewhere most likely although I suppose corrections in the lower frequencies could give the listener the impression of less brightness. The Ergo also asks for numerous specific microphone placements to take measurements. There should not be much experementation with mic positioning. (Although if your results were poor I can't blame you for trying)
In my room it worked very well. The bass became much more solid and imaging greatly improved since it does level matching. The fact that is is also a very good sounding DAC is the icing on the cake.
The Ergo asks for multiple mic placements after the focus position. It did not ask for specific mic placements -- in fact it specified to get very general with mic placements to emulate real world listening from a global standpoint. Different positions until it measures 90% understanding or above -- plug and play. But I can't believe that the room corrections it did were trying to compensate for any brightness. They were flat out BLOATED. My room is not atypical -- it's a living room, with the usual plants, couch, curtains, rugs, etc. There is some slap echo, but nothing out of the ordinary.
If you're also citing level mismatch between channels -- are you referring to db levels at the listening position? Not the case with me. My levels were matched.
As I said, perhaps my experience was an anomaly, though one I wasn't expecting. I'm saddened with the results and don't know what to attribute them to. No doubt that others have had better experiences, but mine have not been.
my level matching comment was directed at Bob_reynolds. Regardless, it's puzzling why it measured the way it did. No idea. I did contact them (never got a reply) but when the software glitched out after hitting Cancel during a test (subsequent test initiations never got past the 'clearing the old information' phase) that was it for me. Didn't work, software glitchy, give me a refund.
I also tried the Ergo in my system hoping it would enable a better placement of my Harbeth 40.1 speakers in a room with 12 foot high slanted ceilings. I did A/B with and without the Ergo and found absolutely no difference other than it decreased the gain significantly so volume knob had to be increased to achieve the same results. Customer service???? No answers, no replies. Unfortunately, I went beyond the return window so it's now in a box in the closet should anyone have interest, it is available.
I A/B'd them by listening with the machine indicating a 95% room knowledge in the on position and then removing the machine and putting my interconnects back in place. Absolutely no difference with the exception of a decrease in gain with the Ergo in place.
I added a Martin Logan Dynamo subwoofer to my system today and had to recalibrate the Ergo. I did it twice, so I feel more comfortable with the process now.
A few thoughts;
1. The built in crossover+ room correction makes dialing in a subwoofer easy! Integration is well beyond what you could do by ear.
2. The software is buggy for sure (MAC for me) The biggest issue is when you try and over-write previous settings which has been noted in this thread. I found today that the "time-out" when deleting happens only if the calibrate button is pushed in. The ergo wants you to hit that button after memory has been cleared. If the calibration button is not depressed the old room will be overwritten in a few seconds. This is a work around for something that should have been fixed a long time ago.
3. Mic position is important and you need to follow the directions for focus, and specific positions 1-4. I missed position two and went to three the first time around and the sound was awful. Even though I really screwed up the Ergo thought it had 92% knowledge. After following mic positions focus and then 1-4 according to the included chart the sound was seamless.
So now I am using this thing for a firewire dac, room correction, preamplifier and line level XO for the sub. (Speakers crossed at 55hz- the integration is to good to be true)
Incredible value at $499 IMO.
This thing also has 24/96 ADC on board as well. Hoping to test that soon with my analog rig.
No- That would be super nice to be able to see pre and post charts. I haven't looked into anything third party- I am not sure if it would even be feasible to extract correction info with a 3rd party app. Probably not.
All I can tell you is that without the sub I got better imaging and much more solid bass and I am still trying to get over how well integrated the whole thing is now with the sub. I am blown away by how much the sub does, and then the next minute by how little it does. I ran a frequency sweep using the stereophile test cd and it sounds flat almost all the way down to 20hz.
Rumor has it that new firmware is on the immediate horizon too.