The pre-amp section in my Krell Evo 707 is fantastic, much better than the Krell KCT, my prior pre-amp. The comparison is not even close. |
Hi Keith:
Give me two or 3 options:
Option 1: Unlimited budget.
Option 2: Best performance for the money.
Option 3: What would you do? |
Audiolabyrinth,
I was not unhappy with the Krell KCT, thought it was a very good pre-amp. I purchased the EVO 707 when it was first released. I was one of the first to own this amazing processor. There were a lot of 'buggy' problems related to HDMI, all of which have been solved. The pre-amp section has always been stellar. It is better than the KCT in every way. Music emerges from a dead silent black back ground. It has deeper, tighter base. Better sound staging and better voice/instrument separation. The sound stage is more 3 dimensional. Everything sounds faster, more immediate, more vibrant. Music is clearer, more lifelike. I have been involved in high end audio and home theater since 1974. I have made many, many upgrades over the years. Replacing the Krell KCT with the EVO 707 was the single greatest upgrade I have ever made. The sound improvement was immediately, easily recognizable. I have Krell EVO 600E mono blocks for amps (R and L channels). I use Krell cast connections (except for my Esoteric K01 CD/SACD player). A great pre-amp can have an enormous impact on sound. |
Audiolabyrinth,
The 707 retailed for $30,000. The pre-amp section for all 7 channels in the EVO 707 are identical and very close to the Evo 2. The Evo 2 is an ultra high end pre-amp that retailed for $40,000 (maybe $50,000) for a 2 channel pre-amp. I only use the 2 channel pre-amp (stereo, in analog without processing) when listening to music. I use 5.1 channels for movies/TV. The Evo 707 is amazing with movies as well as music. If you talk to Patrick Bresnahan at Krell, he will tell you that there is nothing Krell makes today that will compare with the 707 for music or movies. There is currently nothing on the market that would motivate me to give up my Evo 707. The KCT cannot touch the EVO 707, it is not even close. |
Krell is in business to make money. The enormous, heavy, high end products they used to make appeal to an extremely small group of consumers. The younger generations currently appear to be more interested in convenience and portable music than great sounding music.
Krell's current product line is still high end, but not as high end as in the past. Their new amps and processors are designed to fit into professionally installed rack systems. They are targeting a slightly different group of consumers for business reasons.
I have owned many Krell products over the years. My current system has 2 Krell Evo 600E mono blocks, one Evo 400E mono block (center channel), one Evo 302E stereo amp (rear channels), and the Evo 707 processor. All connected with Cast. I absolutely love the old Krell products. I love the sound and build quality.
Their new amplifiers have internal fans rather than large heavy heat sinks to dissipate heat, and the power output does not double as ohms are halved (very un-Krell). I don't like fans, moving parts create noise and vibrations and tend to break down. I have not auditioned any of their new products, so I cannot comment on the sound.
If you buy a used Evo 707, make sure it has been fully updated. The DSP chip used in the original 707 had trouble handling HDMI audio (all other audio sources were not a problem). This was resolved a few years after release by installing an different DSP chip at the fell factory at no charge.
I am a busy guy. Rather than FED-EX my unit in it's original box, I closed my office and drove to the Krell factory in Connecticut to personally deliver my Evo 707 for an update last spring (HDMI 1.4 compatible, new DSP chip, software update). I waited in town for several hours while they kindly did the update. I met with Patrick Bresnahan, who was very informative and generous with his time and attention. That demonstrates how much I adore the EVO 707.
I think the 707 was a bargain, even at $30,000. It has 7 channels all very close in quality to the $40,000, 2 channel Evo 2. It also has the digital processing for HDMI. My advice: use the pre-amp analog bypass for music, do not use the digital processing for music. Also, I only use 2 channel stereo for music, the digital processor surround sound messes up the sound stage and diminishes the sound quality (in my opinion). The processor does sound amazing with BluRay Discs movies in master audio.
The Krell 700CX amp is a fantastic amp. I have listened to it many times. I previously owned a couple of MCX mono blocks and loved them. The Evo 707 will work great with your amp. Use Krell Cast MMF cables (sold by Krell, made by Nordost). You will be blown away by the EVO 707. I think a pre-amp has much greater effect on sound quality than a power amp.
I did not upgrade my 707 to 3D because I don't care for 3D TV in it's current rendition. When I upgrade to 4000K TV (when it becomes mainstream), I will continue to use the Evo 707 even though it is not 4000K (HDMI 2.0) compatible. Patrick has told me it would be very difficult to make the EVO 707 HDMI 2.0 compatible (not sure why). It is unlikely that Krell will ever make HDMI 2.0 available for the EVO 707. I will have to connect the video signal directly into the TV. This is something you should consider if you plan to buy a 707. Personally, I would still buy it.
By the way, I think Krell still considers the EVO 707 a 'current' model. I don't think it has been officially archived like the rest of the 'Evolution' line. It is a very special, unique audio product. Unfortunately, I am sure it will be retired very soon.
The only way I would ever give up my EVO 707, is if a better sounding processor becomes available. I don't see that happening in the near future.
So, in all my years involved with the high end audio/home theater hobby (since 1974), if you asked my does one product stand out as being extra special and a favorite, it would be the Krell EVO 707.
One last piece of advice: Before buying a used Evo 707, call a few high end audio shops (also call Krell directly for audio shop referrals) and inquire if they have new 707's or demo, fully updated models. If it is officially discontinued, they will sell new at steep discounts. |
Audiolabyrinth,
If you want a processor that sounds great with stereo music and with 5.1 or 7.1 master audio BluRay discs, buy an Evo 707. If you plan to use the unit for stereo music only, you don't need the Evo 707. If that is the case, you might want to try to find a Krell Evo 2. But, either unit would match up perfectly with your amp. I think you would be happy with either choice.
Are you looking for a 2 channel music only pre-amp or a music and home theater processor?
Yes, I do think the Krell Evo 707 will compete very well with the best pre-amps available today.
If you are not using Cast, make sure you are using a high end balanced connection for your audio. I felt Cast MMF made a subtle but perceptible improvement in sound, (faster, more immediate, more vibrant). My 707 is connected to all of my amps with Cast MMF cable. Some people have reported that they like balanced connections better than Cast. I prefer Cast. It's a matter of taste, I guess.
For digital I use an Esoteric K01 SACD/CD player. The K01 is my second most all time favorite piece of equipment. It is far superior to any other SACD/CD player I have ever owned or listened to. I use analog out and connect to the 707 with a Kimber Kable KS1136 (balanced). For BluRay player I have a Dennon 3800 connected with HDMI. An update on the Dennon is way over-due, but I will probably wait for the high end 4K units to hit the market before buying a new movie/disc player.
I would never say the Evo 707 is the last processor I would ever purchase. At this time, I am completely satisfied with the 707, but who knows what the future holds. Something is bound to show up some day that will compel me to update. Unfortunately, Krell has no current plan to out-do the audio section of the Evo 707. I doubt they ever will, unless they feel there is a market that justifies the development and production cost.
I Update components of my audio/home theater system when I find a compelling product and the mood strikes.
When building a great sounding music/home theater system everything is important (front end, cables, pre-amps, amps, speakers, subs., speaker placement, seating placement, set-up, shelving, room acoustics, dedicated lines, eliminating hum, 'dirty lines', RFI). But, I have found that pre-amps have a greater impact on sound quality than amps and cables. A great pre-amp can contribute to a huge improvement in sound.
By the way, your amp should be using dedicated lines (Krell recommends dedicated lines for the 700cx).
Here is another simple, inexpensive tip: Switching from Comcast cable to Verizon FIOS dramatically improved my entire system (music, movies, TV). It eliminated a very soft, barely perceptible but constant hum (mild RFI from the cable lines). I had to put my ear next to the speaker to hear it, but it was always present. Because the FIOS signal is light until it reaches my house, it does not carry RFI (or at least it is less susceptible to RFI). When I switched to FIOS my entire system become incredibly silent with respect to back ground hum or hiss. It improved sound staging, instrument separation and became more 3 dimensional. Any back ground noise will reduce the performance of a high end music system. |
Interesting, check out www.milliondollarstereos.com, their 2.284 million dollar system uses the Krell Evo 707 processor. I guess they also feel this is currently the best processor available. |
C2300mc275:
I have never listened to the Krell 7.1 hts, so I can't comment on it's performance.
Audiolabyrinth:
I never directly compared the Evo 707 to the Evo 202. I haven't listened to the Evo 202 in many years, and have limited memory and experience with this piece. I would expect the Evolution 202 to be a great pre-amp. It is probably the second best pre-amp ever built by Krell, the Evolution 2 is their best pre-amp to date. The two chassis Phantom is probably also a great pre-amp (it may be a repackaged Evo 202). I suspect the Evo 707 performance would fit someplace in between the Evo 2 and Evo 202, or possibly equivalent to the Evo 202.
Unfortunately these great products have been discontinued so it is difficult to find a store where you can compare them.
My discussions with Patrick Bresnahan have been very informative. He knows Krell equipment as well or better than anyone else. Try calling Patrick at Krell, he can elaborate on sound and technical comparison of these products.
When it comes to electronics, it seems most people prefer to discuss power amps over pre-amps. Great power amps are very important to sound reproduction, but it has been my experience that pre-amps can have a greater impact on sound than power amps. It is well worth spending time researching and auditioning pre-amps.
I am glad you enjoy my comments. I am out of town this week and have been pre-occupied with my daughter's wedding, scheduled this weekend. |
Jmcgrogan2
"I concur. I have found it much easier to find an amp or even speakers that I can live with than a preamplifier. When you find the right preamp your whole system comes to life. That is why I consider the preamp to be the heart and soul of the system."
I agree with you Jmcgrogan2! The pre-amp is the heart and soul of the system. A great pre-amp can make your music reproduction sound more vibrant, more 3 dimensional, more alive. For some reason, pre-amps do not seem to get as much attention as power amps, front end products or even cables and interconnects. I don't understand why that is the case. |
Audiolabyrinth,
I am curious, what did Patrick say about Evo 2, Evo 202, Phantom and Evo 707 pre-amps? |
Aaudiolabyrinth:
"I believe you can get far more performance out of what you have with better cables, if you have questions on what I am getting at, just ask, I am not a dealer, nor do I work for any audio company, my interconnect is balanced,"
O.K. my friend, please make your cable recommendations (including interconnects, speaker cable, power cords). My speakers are B&W 802D (front R/L), B&W HTM2D (center), B&W Nautilus 805 SCM-1 (surround R/L). Two Paradigm Signature Sub 25's. The subs are used only for home theater (t.v./movies), not music. I only use front R/L speakers for music. All amps have their own 20 amp dedicated line with hospital grade outlets. You know the electronics.
Thanks. |
Keith,
Speaking of cable for Krell equipment:
I never asked Patrick, or anyone else at Krell what speaker cable they recommend with Krell equipment. But, if you look at their cable choice at shows, that should be a good indication of what they think works best. They typically use (or have used in the past) high end Nordost speaker cable and Krell Cast MMF interconnects with their high end products. I would think they would choose the cable that makes their equipment sound it's best. |
Keith,
I am responding to your email message on the Audiogon forum rather than directly by email because I would like to hear what other members have to say about my opinion on this topic.
Unlike pre-amps, power amps, front end, and speakers, all of which can have a very large and obvious impact on sound, I have found speaker cables, interconnects and power cords to have a much more subtle impact on sound quality. Rather than spend enormous amounts of money (tens of thousands of dollars) on cable, I think that kind money is better spent on better electronics and speakers. For example, if I were to spend tens of thousands of dollars on my set up, I would rather upgrade my speakers to high end Vivid Audio Speakers rather than upgrade my cable. I think the sound quality improvement would far more substantial by upgrading the speakers. Under the circumstances, it is very tough to justify spending all that money on cable. |
1) The next major upgrade/update of my system would be speakers (maybe Vivid, Magico, Yg Acoustics, etc.). After a speaker overhaul, I might consider updating/upgrading cable. Buying 10's of thousands of dollars worth of cable with my current B&W speakers makes no sense.
2) I think it would be foolish not to take advantage of Krell Cast in my system. I like Cast a lot. All of my amps are connected to my 707 processor with Cast MMF cable. I am sure the guys at Krell would agree with this statement. So I would consider upgrading only speaker cable and possibly power cords after buying new speakers. |
Keith,
I am very happy with my bi-wired Kimber Kable loud speaker speaker cable KS 3033 (6 ft length). It is excellent, well designed speaker cable. I appreciate your recommendation and effort to help me improve my set-up, however, I highly doubt the Tara labs cable that you have recommended would significantly improve the performance of my equipment. |
