"Krell" is a buzzword

When I look at how the posts involving Krell deteriorate to the point of civil(actually not so civil) war, I have to say that "Krell" has become a buzzword. It seems as if you just have to mention the name, and the mobilization begins. Sooner or later the insults sink to the level that make the thread completely unrecognizable from the original question. I am more neutral than not on Krell(probably not many of us around). Used to dream about them in my bigger is better solid state days, but have since moved in other directions. Now I am a definite tubeophile, and don't even think about Krell. But, I don't say you cannot build a great system around their products. Just have to apply the right surrounding components. But don't you have to do that with many brands of amp? So, do you agree that Krell has become a buzzword, and why?
I think envy, same type of people like to knock corvetts, bosses, and people who excelled at what they do. I am 53 and have used krell for awhile now and find their products and service first class, some people may like other products more, there is a lot to choose from, but the ones who just love to knock krell seem to have a inferiority complex, discussing pro and cons of audio equipment is one thing, but to vent your frustrations on a paticular company or product is more of a mental problem.
You HIT it on the nail Trelja! The word Krell brings lot of ' Sour grapes cases'. Mainly because there brand of neutralitiy is unlike any in Hi-end. The fact that they need careful matching of front and back components frustrates most. Most don't even know it. I know it and have auditioned both good and great set-ups( I don't own one!). Once you are at top, every one wants to see you fall.
I agree! As I progress up the audio ladder I find even though it sounds better I run into problems I didnt expect.Fine tuning is something that has to be done with any worth wild stereo.Should I just "dump" something and start over? I have more dedication and will power then that.My stereo has developed into a very sensitive and neutral beast.I wasnt ready for that when I got my Aleph-3.I do have some upper-mid brightness but will I 'dump" the 3?? Nope,I'll just work on it till its right.Does the 3 "suck" cause of that??
I had a Krell amp and was totally pleased with the build quality and their service. I thought the amp had blown up and sent it in to the factory, come to find out it actually had been struck by lightning and they fixed it at no cost to me. After that, the amp never sounded better. Anyone bashing Krell doesn't really understand the hobby or obsession they are involved in and need to figure out that all gear has it's own distinct sound. If you don't like it don't buy it, but definitely don't the company because many people do like it. I now have ARC electronics and am totally satified.
Boy David99: The next worse mistake that you can make in Hi-fi (other than buying a Krell) is to own a Pass amp. Dumping it is the way to go (and we are talking in the trash here), trust me on this... Is this the type of post that you are referring to, Trelja? The ones that are just chalked full (not) of helpful advice. I am sorry that I fell asleep for last nights volley, I just read it this morning.
what is the point of this thread, trelja? do you really think it will generate more light than heat? seems to me, you're simply baiting the horde.
While i agree that the word "Krell" tends to bring about some of the most polarized responses from those involved in audio, there are many other subjects that get people excited. Just mention the terms "vinyl", "digital", "tube", "solid state", etc.. and you can get very similar reactions and just as divided responses. Anyone that has a strong interest in a specific hobby / subject will obviously have opinions to voice depending on their personal tastes and experiences. Having made the above "disclaimer", it's pretty obvious that some of us here have very different tastes and systems that represent those values. I have always been of the opinion that EVERY piece of gear may require MASS manipulation of one's system to really be able to obtain the best results. This includes Krell, Pass, tubes, SS, vinyl, digital, etc... Many people dial their system into a specific sound and then are unhappy when they alter it's performance via a new / different component. They think that the new piece is inferior while it is really just "different". They forget about all the past effort that had put into their system fine tuning it to the point that they were at just before the change. Those that simply swap gear without taking the time or effort to "fine tune" the rest of the components (cables ARE components) will NEVER know what that piece is truly capable of. Those that don't have the capabilities to substitute component for component (multiple times) to find a good blend in their system at the drop of a hat may have never experienced the differences that doing something like this can demonstrate. Even with all of the effort involved in doing this, some gear will just not blend with other specific components or not deliver the type of sound / performance that someone may be looking for. That is why system synergy is so very important and the reason why some systems are simply "decent" (yet very expensive) while others sound very good (yet are "reasonable" in price). It doesn't take much to produce a product that "makes sound come out of it". Case in point: Fisher Price makes a toy called a "Close-N-Play". It takes a LOT of effort and trial and error to build a SYSTEM that is both "accurate" AND "musical". While ONE component CAN make the difference between sounding good / bad, much of this may just be a lack of synergy in the system to begin with. Don't blame it all on "Krell". Or "Pass". Or "tubes". The "system" as a whole was simply lacking. I think you get the idea. Sean >
Corn F.B. is right this is like dumping a bucket of chum in shark infested waters.....bloodlust. I have never heard/owned a Krell but will make the observation that the current Stereophile recommended list has 3 Krell amps rated class A, and it seems there is always Krell amps rated class A, so many "professional reviewers" think highly of them. BTW did the president of Krell see the 1950s classsic sci-fi movie "forbidden planet" where the alien master race that left the advanced tech and then died were the "krell"
Megasam: I thought the term Krell preceeded the Forbidden Planet. Krell was the name of a planet with unlimited power in a very early sci-fi serial, perhaps Buck Rogers??? Other old timers may want to help here!! I currently own three Krell products (mono blocks and a three chassis preamp from the late '80's and the KBX cross-over from the early '90s.) I have nothing but high regard for their build quality and service. While I cannot comment on the sound quality of current models vis-a-vis their competition, it has been my experience that audiophiles who are used to the sound of other top push-pull solid state (Levinson as an example) often find the sound of Krell to be dull by comparison. For me, however, they were consistently more natural than the more "technicolor" competitors--more music than hi-fi or to use an old photography analogy, Krell was Agfa to the other solid state's Kodachrome. Tubes, of course, are an entirely different matter. I agree with the sentiment that it is popular to tear down whoever is successful. When visiting London in the late '80s I was surprised to find the same attitude toward B&W speakers in their homeland as we yanks had for the likes of JBL. (I had always thought that B&W made a pretty fine dynamic speaker). Cheers,
Speaking of buzz words: Where is Sluggo? Did he go underground?
I very much agree with the opinions of Sean in this thread. System SYNERGY is the overriding factor in whether a component sounds good in your system. Or not. There is more than one way to skin a cat... The purpose of this thread, to answer those who have raised the issue, is to get this whole thing out in the open. The ultimate goal is not to provide more cannon fodder, but to hopefully bring us all(specifically, the Krell lovers and haters) to some sort of place where we can coexist(we don't have to agree). Maybe we can agree that Krell can be bad in some sytems, and good in others. And to discuss this whole phenomena of the emotions the mere mention of the name "Krell" brings out. In a civilized, ADULT manner. One devoid of anger, hostility, profanity, and cheap shots. I could have easily slid my comments into that other thread. But, I think a clean sheet of paper is a good place to start. One with none of the blood stains of the other. So, my question. Why is there so much anger related to this topic? We don't see this kind of warfare in the tube vs. solid state argument, and that sure should be worse than this debate.
I know this off the original proposed thread. I always thought tweeks were to articulate chracterisics not contradict them. I would think it is better to match equipment with like desings and goals and I never put a piece in my system that didnt sound good on its own. When you mix a harsh peice and a refined piece dont you get the worst of both worlds? You are contradicting what each piece was designed to do well. I am very intersted in hearing your comment on this. I admit I have never heard Krell and I am very open to opinion.
Good point. I don't think that ANYONE would LIKE to match bright electronics with dark electronics and "hope for the best". Unfortunately, some people can't afford to just dump everything all at once and replace the offending components. For them, it is a matter of working with what you have and gradually climbing the ladder. After all, that is what keeps places like this, Audioshopper, Audioweb, AudioReview, etc... thriving with used items. Doing something like that is merely a stepping stone to what people are trying to achieve further down the road as their budget allows. As to putting something into your system that doesn't sound "good", i think that we have all done that at one point in time. Not only do our tastes change (for the better, i hope), but our levels of experience and what to listen / look for advance with our exposure to different gear and system combinations. Can you actually say that the first "Hi-End" or "Hi-Fi" that you assembled actually sounded good and gave you everything that you want by your standards today ? Probably not. You PROBABLY worked up to that level. Just like you, others are still climbing that ladder, hoping to find "audio nirvana" once they get to the top. Only problem is that there is no top and the ladder never ends : ) Sean >
Krell did come from the Forbidden Planet.... I own a Krell KSA200S and love it. I've heard a lot of other amps that sound as good but it depended on the speakers that were matched to them. Krell's have one technical specification (current non-limiting) that sets them appart from most other high quality amps. I own Thiel 3.6s and they suck the live out of many amps (almost all tube amps) with their nominal 3 ohm load. So for soom audiophiles with speakers that demand high current capability Krell is an obvious choice. Other speakers may present different challanges and different amp solutions.
Sorry to jump in. I was always wondering exact same question. I have just got Sonus Faber Signum, and someone told me that SF designer's reference amo is Krell (sorry if wrong). Do any of you have direct experience of Krell/SF combination?
Trelja...really what is the point in threads like this? You have clearly stated that you have moved on in other directions and even state that you don't even think about Krell anymore. This thread seems a bit of a contradiction as you obviously do. If you've found what you like, and it's not Krell, why would you care what others think. Even if you did own and love Krell would it make you feel insecure or uncertain in your choice if others were bashing it? Trelja, I see your name so much on Audiogon threads voicing opinions (or seeking them) that I honestly wonder when you find the time to listen!
got to say..... the amps do have balls.....i have owned quite a # of others...but none of the others will do...>>>BUT, may the good lord help you if they ever break down.the turn around time is 6 weeks....????hmmm...but when they work they do so with power and authority no other.......well for those that want amps that keep on kicking...and never break down>>>>>>try bryston
Gentlemen, as a user of Krell equipment with great success for almost ten years I can attest that Krell equipment is ruthless at revealing any weakness in your chain of equipment. It ALL starts with a good front end, whether digital or analog. If your front end isn't in the same caliber as a Krell, the Krell will reveal it's shortcomings either in brightness, tonal imbalance, etc... next is your cabling. I am always amazed at those who say there is no difference between cable. That statement may be true if you have a mediocre CD player and a Kenwood amp or even an Adcom amp for that matter. When you move up the chain of quality, you will notice difference between cabling and equipment. After the front end and cabling, the preamp is the next most important component, maybe even more than the amp, then the amp. A superb front end, cables, preamp and amp can make average speakers shine, but rarely will great speakers make average electronics shine. So here's the bottom line! Don't even think of a Krell or any other top notch amp until you have the rest of the chain close in quality. You will only be disappointed. And for those of you who think Krell is bright, my neighbor reviews for Absolute Sound and I brought my Krell FPB-600C to his dedicated listening room with tube traps, dedicated 20amp lines, perfect dimensions, etc... and we compare my amp to his Manley mono tube amps connected to his Thiel 7.2's driven by the Wadia 860 digital front end and quite frankly the Krell was equally as delicate and musical as the tubes, but with superior low end control and detail. Even my neighbor and his four friends admitted they could live with the Krell amp. By the way, if you're keeping notes, all the cabling was Transparent Reference. I recently upgraded to the Krell 650mc's and they blow away the 600.
Hi Tswhitsel; Other than to complain about a well respected Audiogon member, what is the point of YOUR post? IMO, Trelja is one of the most knowledgeable and respected regular posters on Audiogon. I especially value his opinions and advice on tubes and tube equipment. He has established an excellent reputation for civil, intelligent posts, and if he posts often, the rest of us are better off for it; not to mention that it's his business. I don't see your name or opinions much (at all?) and so have no basis for judging your credibility. Because I post fairly often too, I suppose you've judged(?) me-- and maybe some others, as you have Trelja. Well IMO, If I'm placed in a class with Trelja, I'll be in good company. Cheers. Craig
This thread may be like feeding sharks, but Trelja is right. What other brand name invokes this kind of spirited debate? (well, except Bose). And why? What's unique about Krell? It seems to me that's worth talking about. No? Why doesn't ARC, Classe', Levinson, SF, CJ, Jadis, Bryston etc. etc. etc. draw this kind of fire? Craig
Khokugo I have Sonus Faber Extremas and use two Classe Audio 400's. The classe is a great match. Try it. You wont be dissapointed.
Perfectimage, thanks for your reply. I was wondering whether no one would care. Anyway, looks great, but a bit out of my league. Anything around $3000? Integrated is fine with me, too. Signum costs one quater of Guarneri. I am looking for something in the league. I appreciate your kindness. Ken
I bought a used Classe Audio Ca 400 from here for just under $3000.00. I used it as a two channel for a while. I liked it so much that I saved up for a couple of years and bought another one. They can be run in two channel or can be bridged. It is a great match for Sonus Faber with tones of power. Its very open, smooth, and images unbeleavably well just like Sonus Faber. It is also the most transparent amp I have ever heard. Good luck in the search!!
Garfish, I thank you profoundly for your kind words and compliments. Actually, it is you who serves as a great role model on what we members can aspire to be. Your posts have always garnered the respect and admiration(from many people) that your intelligence and personality bring to this site. You have read me right. Why is it Krell? That's the point of this thread Twhitsel. My goal is that through this thread we can come to understand why it is that Krell has become THE high end manufacturer that is capable of such venomous debate. The history of Mark Levinson(the company) products has followed a parallel path to Krell. Nobody jumps on Levinson owners(although they usually don't go around saying they are the sole bearers of audio wisdom). And what of the products that are REALLY different? You don't see people attacking SET amplifiers, and they are much farther away from what has been the standard than Krell. Why not attack Bob Carver? His Lightstar/Sunfire products certainly follow a more different pathway than Krell. What about Triangle? Their speakers break as many of the "rules" as any mass-fi product. While I like with some designs, and don't care for others, I don't lose my cool when someone mentions a name. Who cares? If someone uses a product other than what I like, my only hope is that they enjoy it.
I think everyone has a good point because everyone is right and we all should at least respect that. All these postings are just opinions and nothing more. You cannot question why another posted his opinion because after all you're only posting your opinion about their posting. Don't read it if you don't like it. It's American and we all have the right and the previledge to state our opinions. Now that I have gotten that off my chest, what do I think off all this? Well..I once saw a special on the Discovery Channel about the apes civilization and was intrique that the dominant male apes often hump the other less dominant male apes not to demonstrate their sexuality but to show their power and control within their community. Scientist now have learned our society shows similar behaviours. They discovered that us male behave the same way. Although we don't demonstrate physical humping, we show this behavior through owning expensive assets. This is how we let other males know what we have more money (a.k.a. power) than them. In conlusion, I think some of us are here in the forum to show off our what we own (how many times have we heard a new thread starting with "I own or I have or I recently purchased"), to seek advices, to show off our expertise, and to initiate in conflicts. I wonder if some of you Krell haters dislike Krell period or dislike Krell because it's not worth the price? You've got to be lying if you would take a Krell for $100. Perhaps the real question is maybe we are all in this forum because we don't have anything better to do than to talk to a bunch of strangers. Shouldn't you all be listening to your high priced stereo?
Audiogon chat forum is for chatting about audio related "stuff"-- not for listening to music or discussing apes, IMO. I own no Krell equipment, but considerd their FPB 200 before buying McCormack DNA-2DX. Krell is certainly a successful well respected high end audio manufacturer and has always been well reviewed in the audio press. Likje Trelja, I'm just curious as to why at the mere mention of the name Krell, it brings out Krell haters out of the woodwork and from under the floorboards. Craig.
I can type and listen at the same time. I just do it to the tempo of the music. I wonder if it would be harder with a "high priced" stereo?
The way I see it is that Krell is well marketed and "expensive", and for any audiophile reading the ads and reviews, Krell is in your face to the extent that you are under pressure to aspire to own a Krell. A lot of the marketing is just about that - getting new audiophiles to aspire to a Krell so you catch them later when they are ready to buy. This is not dissimilar to branding of BMW, Rolex etc. The flipside is that the pressure to aspire to it can also cause people to prefer to "bag" it rather than aspire to it. This polarised reaction is typical of heavily marketed products. It is true that some of the motivation to "bag" Krell is to make people that cannot afford it feel better about this fact, but it is not the only reason. If Krell was merely rubbish, this would not result in the emotional negative feelings about it. If Krell was merely rubbish, it would engender the same feelings as audiophiles have for Bose. The fact that many audiophiles have clearly not only aspired to Krell but also like it means that Krells must sound OK too. If I was Krell, I would be pretty happy about the polarised response - far better that than a luke-warm one.
Dekay, how can you type sitting in front of your computer, while trying to listen to music at the same time? Wouldn't you be out of the "sweet spot" of you system set up...which we all have spent too much money trying to achieve in the first place? Sounds ironic to me.
Margin, you are one to talk about showing off money. "Margin Call", an obvious bragadocia, that you either own many stocks, or are a broker, or are pretending same. I should call myself "got it all", and then I would be like you. I'm just getting started in the stock market. Is a gain of 5000% in a single day a good time to sell that stock? I need to know, because I now have more money than sense, and am contacting Bill Gates to ask if he'll shine my shoes for me....
Garfish...sorry to have offended. You obviously hold Trelja in very high esteem and feel the need to come to his defense. But you miss my point. I have been a serious audiophile for 25 years and I do not see the value of threads like this. That's my opinion. I regularily read numerous audio publications and the only place I see all of this Krell bashing, not to mention the bashing of several other well regarded aduio companies, is on Audiogon. Cornfedboy said it well...buzzard words indeed! Krell and other companies like them would not be where they are today if they were making junk, and while it may not be to everyones taste it is obviously quality equipment. If there is something seriously wrong with a company's product or really bad customer service then that is something worth knowing about, but that is not the case here. You may have great respect for Trejla and value his opinions, which is fine by me, but I find nothing particularily intelligent about this post and feel it only adds fuel to an argument that does nothing to further the enjoyment of this hobby. And Craig, I do on occasion post an opinion on Audiogon, but it is usually in response to a specific question about some audio gear I have had personal experience with and never to bash it. Even if I did post all the time would that necessarily make me any more credible to you or anyone else. I think it only would if you happened to agree with my opinions. And I have not judged you or any others based on the number of postings on Audiogon. By the way, and for what it's worth, I have never owned any Krell equipment (I own a pair of BEL amps,a Modulus 3A preamp, a Audio Logic DAC, and an EAR phono preamp), but I have auditioned some and thought it was very good.
Hi Margin: I have our second mini system hooked up at the computer station now, soon to be set up for near field listening (all I need is a pair of 30" stands). Before, the computer was set up in the living room with the main system ($2500.00 total for the whole ball of wax -w- some of the items purchased used). I am not hooked on the sweet spot and always try to set the better system up so that it sounds its best in a general seating area. We are talking about 10% off axis at the most for the extremes of the entire listening area. If I feel like doing critical listening or when I am auditioning something new at home I just move a chair into a near field arrangement for that purpose. Some speakers like Maganapans and my old Castle's sound good to me slightly off axis, maybe because thay are a little bright for my taste to start with. Also interesting for near field listening at the computer are some little DIY planer speakers at the Decware web site that I would like to try to build at some point and use with a flea watt amp that I would run the mini system through. I at one point ran the mini system through my Musical Fidelity amp and the cheap little five disk CD player sounded pretty good. The tape decks sounded well, like tape decks. I also tweaked the mini system with Vibrapods, Kimber Kable and some sound damping (sticky) sheets that my mechanic gave me installed to the inside of the CD tape player module The speakers were replaced with Polk Rt-15's that were being given away locally when the new version came out. The system itself is a Sony MHC-NX1 that is very handy for my wife's old massive collection of CD's that I wouln't bother playing on the main system due to their background noise and general lack of high fidelity.
Addendum: I meant my wife's massive collection of cassette tapes, not CD's (whish they were CD's, cause if they were I would be listening to Mink DeVille, Cadillac Walk" in the living room right now).
Dekay, you sound very practicle with your set up. Since you like to listen to music and serve at the same time, have you consider using the PC as a source? I saw some new D/A sound card which was featured in Sept. issue of Stereophile, but have not read through the article in details. Has any heard anything about this product? How do you all feel about the PC eventually becoming your one source of music?
Hi Margin: Yes, I have wondered about that mainly to download/play music samples from BMG and Columbia. We do not listen to the radio and I have found it hard to select new poular music by unknowns and know that I am missing out on a lot of stuff that I would enjoy. I have a patchcord to hook the mini system up to the PC, but have not plugged it in yet. I gave the old computer speakers away when I moved it to the bedroom as we only used them to listen to musical greeting cards. I was just thinking of using one of the downloadable software programs offered at the sites to start, but do have three extra drive slots in the CPU for adding a zip or whatever drive that would be needed for a more elaborate setup. However, my main goal for this little listening station is to incorporate a small inexpensive SET amp (like the Decware Zen or a Bottlehead) into the system just to have something different than the other sytem, and since the room is small it should sound pretty good. Even the little Polk's would probably work under these conditions, but the little DIY planer speakers look like a real trip and would be a cheap and fun project. There are people at this site that have invested thousands in music computer software which is not my intention.
Dekay, you sound very practicle with your set up. Since you like to listen to music and serve at the same time, have you consider using the PC as a source? I saw some new D/A sound card which was featured in Sept. issue of Stereophile, but have not read through the article in details. Has any heard anything about this product? How do you all feel about the PC eventually becoming your one source of music?
redkiwi: as you know, i think your posts are generally first rate. as a longtime owner of both bmw's and rolex's, however, i resent their connection to krell, a product i've listened to extesively but would never own. cheers, anyway!
Yep, Tswhitsel, I do respect Trelja's posts (and threads), and I may have come across as a bit defensive toward you-- sorry-- hope you will post more, and maybe even on the thread "Who Are U". You seem to have a thoughtful and articulate style of writing, IMO. Redkiwi's above post makes as much sense as any I've seen/heard re: Krell's "odd" reputation (at least on this site). Their reputation is certainly not because they make a poor product, although like any other, taste and opinion(s)vary. Cheers. Craig.
Carl, you're partially right in your profiling of me. I do work on wall street but not as a high paid broker. I am just a administrator that makes those margin/house calls for the money hungry brokers. There are too many instances when greed takes over and the investors refuses to take their profits hoping to make more. Most of them think that if they can just hang on a little longer than tell make even more money. Guess what?..those people lost all their money as fast as they made it. And you sir, if you've made as much as you said you did and didn't sell it already. I you'll be hearing from me or someone else like me....as for Krell..their products are nice, but don't you feel that they are in it for the money. They turn and burn out more models more than Hondas. Bottomline, I think most dislike Krell because of what it represents, but I am sure all would own one if the price is cheap enough.
Thanks Cornfedboy. My impression is that people object to the "character" of Krells as opposed to their quality (the latter being more obviously the case with of Bose), but the distinction may be difficult to maintain. I am actually more a fan for Alfa than I am for BMW (again for character reasons, not for quality) - but it is hard to fault Rolexes on any level except perhaps their bulk (we are talking character again). But I do not have your level of experience with Krell and so bow to your superior knowledge on this point.
Margin, it was a joke, and I have no margin account, that's only for gamblers. I like to invest my OWN money, not borrow someone else's to gamble away. Greed doesn't drive a real investor anyway....greed is for criminals. The desire to participate in commerce, and build a profitable portfolio is an honorable one, and I suspect that you missed that life-lesson a long time ago................No, I disagree that Krell is "just in it for the money". Who are you, their analyst? How could you possibly know what their profit margin is, or what their gross income is at any given time? Admit it, you just don't like Krell because it's a large manufacturer of solely highend equipment, and didn't get swallowed up by a conglomerate like Harman, the way Levinson did...and somehow you are jealous that you couldn't have a company of your own as nice as this one. Krell is sort of like Porsche, the last autonomous manufacturer of sports cars, THE WORLD OVER. Times got tough for them, and they still didn't need Fiat or Ford to bail them out (the way Ferrari and Jaguar did). They survived on their R&D, and always stayed in the black, even when per unit car sales went south in the late 80's. Krell is a solid company that builds quality products, and knocking them proves how petty and loathesome their know-nothing detractors are...at least for me it does. I've seen them for years, since long before the internet was popular. What is said here to discredit Krell, is noting that hasn't been said by hundreds of others over the last 15 years or so. None of you are saying anything new, and yet people still like their product. Go figure...
Carl, I've got to disagree with you on this one. Sky high valuations in the market (or used to be in NASDAQ,s case) show that a lot of investors have been overcome by greed and speculation. BTW, I don't mean to suggest that this includes you. IMO, investing in anything is a gamble of sorts as one is trying to predict future events. In the NASDAQ case people who got in late combined high risk for a chance at low percentage gains - a recipe for disaster. They lost even if they didn't buy on margin. Check out gold and silver investments for medium risk with high possible percentage gains (>5:1 upside). This is true as they are trading as historical low values. Long dated silver call options look especially attractive (>10:1 upside). I agree that a small company like Krell must be doing something right to have survived this long. This in spite of being based out of a high tax location like Connecticut.
hey redkiwi, as an owner of 3 alfas, yer a man i can really respect! :>)

regards, doug

My portfolio is mostly in the Nasdaq exchange right now, and it was still up until yesterday, and I espect it to go up at least 100% in the coming year. I disagree that the word "greed" describes the investor's motivation. Greed implies a selfish desire to take from others, and this is not the investment model.
you are to be commended. I have a singular '63 Giulia Spider carrying a blueprinted 2-liter in a most tastefully modified show car body. Rapid transit, indeed! E dolce!
I believe greed is more than just taking from others, it's taking more than that what you need. Like it or not, greed is one of the foundation of investing. The market drives on greed a.k.a day traders for it to growth. Don't you agree?
OK, my faith is restored with some people the understanding of different character among seemingly similar products. Yeah, I own three Alfas, too. So couldn't resist getting in on this. Dug, I'm starting to have a 3l built for the GTV6, this is about the last step for Il Mostro. Sedon is a man of so much "character" that he doesn't stop with Alfas, he has a Pantera, too. Has character or is a character? ;-) Better slip into the Nomex, I'm sure someone will object to the car references on this dying thread. After all this isn't Alfa Digest!
hey jim, we can run but we can't hide, eh? :>) yule love that 3.0 in a gtwe6 - it works wonders in mine! ;~)

gino, better sign up to the alfa-digest if ya haven't already done so - it's a wealth of info

ok, here's minimal audio content: my daily driver gtwe6 (90 miles/day) doesn't even have a radio! my pantera has a 6-cd-changer w/cassette stereo - which i don't even know how to use - driving & audio don't mix - unless yer listening to the sound of a highly-tuned performance engine on boil... ;~)

regards, doug. ps - jim, don't forget about my '78 ducati or my buell... :>)

Hi Sedond and Jim. Three Alfas is truly impressive and am humbled with only two. My days of being my own mechanic in order to be able to afford commuting while indulging my eccentric taste in sports cars, are over. So I stick to the newer stuff, a 166 and a 156, between me and my wife - she was actually the one that led me towards Alfa and away from the 2-seaters that I used to have.
alas, redkiwi, fiat, in all their wisdom, feels north america is not worthy of the latest italian iron. (except ferrari, go figure...) but, i strongly prefer rwd - my one fwd alfa, the 164 (fiat's influence), was purchased only because they are awailable here at giveaway prices second-hand. there's a possibility of rwd models making it here in a couple years, tho - mite have to sell the pantera... ;~)

regards, doug