Koetsu Urushi+SMEV anti skating setting help

Koetsu does not provide any recommendation on anti skating and as there is "rich" debate on methods: traditional AS=VTF, VDH's 1/3 formula, test records, WallySkater...I would really, really appreciate any help on this issue because, honestly, I am not ready to listen to buzzings or buying expensive "three times in a life" gauges.
Many thanks in advance for your help
There is extensive discussion on these forums on doing it visually (the best method IMO) You can also use a test record that has in/out of phase white noise tracks also discussed here and in the AA vinyl forum.
Many thanks Nsgarch, but I am looking for a direct answer from someone having walked the path I am not ready to walk... A suggested setting from an experienced user is heartly wellcome!!.David
Agondad -- even if you find another Urushi+SMEV owner, and assuming he/she arrived at their setting (properly) through a little practice and observation, your duplicating his/her setting does not assure it will serve you as well. There are still too many variables involved. The visual method is very easy to learn, and the Cardas test record is also an easy way to do it.

A.S. requirements also vary across the record -- luckily the SMEV A.S. force is spring actuated and therefore varies also ;-) The only general tip I can give you is not to use the AS = VTF method of setting AS, because that standard was developed years ago for spherical styli and doesn't apply to modern styli which have far less friction in the groove and require AS settings 20% - 50% the VTF.

Best luck!
Agree with Nsgarch. If the SME V is mounted correctly (proper distance from the spindle in the rest position), dialing in the same number on the anti-skating dial as on the VTF dial will provide the proper amount of anti-skating. Those dials are surprisingly accurate. You can confirm your setting with the visual test as also mentioned by Nsgarch.
I have a Blue Onyx and a Rosewood sig, an SME 30/2 and SME5. As Rgurney says (and SME recommend) setting the numbers for AS and VTF the same does the job for me. Best of luck.
Just an afterthought - be sure the VTF is correct around 2 grams and the stylus is clean.
Well, Rgurney "agrees" with Nsgarch..., but you both are proposing a different aproach: AS=20%-50% VTF vs AS=100% VTF.
Following Wally's theory on AS (non dynamic) setting with WallySkate one should conclude the AS is related to the cartridge and arm working together as a combination (combinated frictions) and I don't quite see how many other could be involved provided alignment, VTF, VTA and load adjustments have been precisely done following the formal manufacturers' recommendations for a duplication not to be a reasonable solution.
I am not a newcomer, but I am afraid I do not follow the endless & obsessive setup and tweaking school.
I will try the visual method, but it will probably show the results of rather big variations...
Koetsu's own arm has (had?) no provision for anti-skating, IIRC. Wonder why?
Thanks Jskg.
My SME instructions manual (8 years old) is not very precise on the matter and simultaneously refers to VTF related AS setting and listening for channel discrepancy...
By the way, are you using the silicone fluid damping? I would really love to avoid it as it is so nasty to use and maintain...
Thanks Dopogue
This is a very interesting issue I have been wondering about and the temptation to use (at least to try) no AS at all is too great to resist...
If possible, use as little anti-skate as you can. Every cartridge/arm combo will yield a different percentage of your VTF. I have various arms and cartridges and have found a good approximation which falls between 25%-30% of your VTF. Dial it in and go from there.

Anti-skate cannot be accurately set so don't be obsessed with it. Anti-skate at any different point on a record is different. Different records require different amount of anti-skate. IMO, set it up once and leave it unless you're in the camp of tweakers who set it differently on various LP's to maximize sonics. Nothing wrong with this but takes a lot more effort.

What you have to do is just relax and listen.
Many thanks Genesis168
I have found your insight informative the most and with the rest of the opinions I am making my own considering there is an obsessive direction I am not going to follow; there are too many records waiting and time has to be used acordingly...
Agondgd - Setting the 'numbers' on the VTF and antiskating dials does not mean that the forces are equal. I think SME has designed the V so that when set that way, the anti-skating force is a percentage of the VTF, increasing as the arm moves toward the spindle. Good luck.
The Koetsu arm has no anti-skate, because its really a waste of time. It cant be set correctly. It is a dynamic force that increases and decreases with loudness and frequency. VPI too recomends no anti-skate.
Dear David,

Here is what has worked for me- you could use it as a starting point for your musical journey..

VTF= 1.95gr
AS= 1.875 (the'precision' of the AS figure should only be used as an approximation for dialling up the setting- if you look at the SME V AS dial you should be very clear what setting I mean).

I agree in theory with how relative an AS setting is. However I recalibrated my SMEV/Urushi a few times and I come back to the same figures.

A further useful bit of information: Urushi is not a good tracker and there is no way you could clear the third let alone the fourth bias setting tracks of Len Gregory's Analogue Test LP.

The SMEV/Urushi is a nice combo- enjoy!
Hi Agondgd
I use a very small amount of damping fluid. Run without first and see how it sounds...I don't think the difference is huge.. If you like the undamped sound then stay with it unless you feel it is too lively.


Many thanks Kostas
This is the kind of answer I was expecting when starting this thread: the experience of a colleague showing me the way. I have been loving Koetsus for a long time but this is the kind of audio product pushing the user, providing no recommendations at all, towards the subjetive (and usually obsessive) setup school. Ok, many can say this is the core business of our hobby, or the basis to keep alive our endless open discussion: " if I like it...", I would say.
Dear Kostas
By the way, are you using the silicone fluid damping of your SME V with the Urushi?
I checked with SME regarding the amount of anti-skating force which is actually applied in the SME V when setting the A/S dial to the same number as the VTF dial. I was told that the amount of force is about 1/12 that of the VTF. That should give you some idea about little is needed.
Very interesting approach indeed!Many thanks for having gone that far in your thread help. In the next days I have the intention to post my system as a Virtual System just to share with you all the results of my "Winterreise"...