Dear @13blm: """
Even if perfect accuracy was achieved it would not automatically ensure listening pleasure ... """
we can't have listening pleasure with true bad recordings even if the room/system is nearest to the recording.
The other reason is that each one room/system audiophile has different main target. You posted exactly that:
"
many of us are saying is that ultimate neutrality or faithfulness to the recording isn't necessarily the goal. """
@lewm : """
Your opinions are "facts". """, totally wrong. My opinions is only that: an opinion but ( again . ) I 'm talking of true facts not opinion and I can see you have a very short memory because you participated more than one time against those facts but you never gave any single fact but opinions.
You can re-read my posts about and is there where those facts are.
Just an example: everything the same what do you think is nearest to " perfection ": an electronic item with a 60 db signal to noise ratio against other electronic item with 85db on that same figure. The same items where one has a RIAA eq. deviation of 3db against the other with 1db deviation or one with limeted frequency response against the other with wider frequency response? what do you prefer ( everything the same. ) a cartridge with a frequency response inside 0.5db at 10hz to 100khz to other with 3db of deviations. Or a measurable ( same cartridges ) where the first one has higher tracking abilities than the other.
All those are facts and I prefer to listen the ones that measures the better because puts me nearest to the recording due that has lower inherent distortions/colorations.
That you don't want to change your self even with facts that proves you are wrong this is different.
Problem is and I posted several times that everyone is willing to gives opinions and be " severe " critics when can't understand the main subject and can't understand because they don't give his self the opportunity to understand it.
I posted what to do ( an experiment or whaever. ) to confirm by it self that those facts will tell everyone how wrong they are but no one is willing to discovery the " true ".
So how almost any one of you already knows my facts are wrong if never had a single self experience on what I'm talking about ????? ¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡ and I already had for years the experiences you are living today.
At least I know both sides of the today " moon ".
It's as some people that do not like to go to the doctor because they are afraid that the doctor can tell they have cancer. Exactly as many of you in the whole audio subject: we are fear of reality and hide behind that: I like it, it does not matters I'm wrong.
Regards and enjoy the Music Not Distortions,
R.
|
Don't forgot that to stay nearest to the recording we need the lowest ( everykind ) distortions levels at each link, so tubes and non damped metal tonearms are absolutely out of question against that target.
R. |
Dear @mulveling : """ We all have opinions...""" and agree with you on this regards.
Now, for some years now I posted several FACTS not opinions in at least 3 critical audio subjects: digital vs analog, tubes vs SS and damped vs non-damped metal tonearms.
Those facts where explained in very long posts not one time but more than twice and I don’t have the time to post it again.
Were very precise facts, incontrovertible ones even measurable ones. In all those years some gentlemans that disagree with me on the superior quality performance levels of digital/SS/damped tonearms over tubes/analog/non damped tonearms they never posted any single FACT that can prove the other FACTS were wrong.
They gave only opinions, subjective opinions that can’t makes sense against objective facts where common sense is mandatory and not opinions that at the end only means: " I like it ".
When I talk about facts on those audio subjects I never speak on what I like or what any one likes, it’s totally irrelevant against what should be through those facts.
No, I’m not posting ( in that regards/subjects. ) my opinion about because my opinion is totally irrelevant.
Same happens in other forums where I posted out of Agon.
But you or any other gentleman can post facts/objective where help all of us to understand why the rigth road ( as should be. ) are: tubes, analog and undamped metal tonearms when is the other way around: SS/DIGITAL/DAMPED TONEARMS.
Remember that my MAIN TARGET is to stay nearest to the recording not what I like it as you and several other audiophiles.
Now, those 3 important and critical audio subjects must be surrounded by a fine tunned each single link at the room/system chain.
Remember too that when our system quality level performance puts us nearest to the recording then in an incontrovertible way we always will loves that kind of sound, we don’t have to worry if " we like it or not " because always we like it if we are ( first than all. ) music lovers and we are not deaf.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
|
Dear @larryi : Till today there is no perfect tonearms. Always exist trade-offs.
I owned some linear tracking tonearms as : Denessen, Southern and ET. I hears many more as Foprsell, Kuzma, the one in Walker Procenium, the one in Rockport and the Transfi, all these not in my system.
I decided to use only pivot tonearm designs because ( even inside its trade-offs. ) makes something no LT design does it and this characteristic is a way better deep bass quality level performance. LT just can't give us the weigth and tigth deep bass as a pivoted ones and maybe can be because are " grounded " mechanically and not float in the air. I can't say why.
Maybe many audiophiles do not cares about deep bass quality levels but it's here where MUSIC starts in a home audio system and the frequency range more critic an important in a room/audio system quality levels. We have to remember here that that bass range gebnerates harmonics and distortions too that affects in sevre way the other frequency range quality levels.
If we have not a real/true full range response in the audio system we just can't enjoy MUSIC and the worst and harder frequency range to handle is precisely the bass range, it's what ( everything the same. ) determines the quality level performance on any room/audio system.
It's easy to check if in our full range system the bass range is rigth or not really rigth and to test this we only need a decent digital source playing same tracks than the analog rig and compare in between and you will know with out doubts..
In any tonearm/cartridge/TT, pivoted or not, ACCURACY in the whole set up is the real name of the game.
A good pivot tonearm design with accurate overall set up has nothing to " envy " to any of those LT designs I named.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC Not Distortions,
R.
|
Dear friends: It's really " curious " that every time I mention that tubes or undamped metal tonearms design can't honor MUSIC and puts every one far away from what's in the LP recording " all " gentlemans ( like in this thread. ) post and posted that I'm " wrong " but , till today , no single of " you " audiophiles posted incontrovertible facts as:
tubes has: wider frequency response range than today SS electronics and wider dynamic range and lower noise levels and lower overall colorations or lower distortions levels than SS.
No one posted incontrovertible facts why metal non-damped tonearms are better than a well damped design.
Or facts that can prove that analog is truer to the recording than today digital experience.
All make and post that I'm " crazy " or something like that or like @terry9 post:
"""
even if that remark were incontrovertibly true, which it certainly is not. """
but do not tell us why " is not ".Don't you think that in this century year 2017 is not a good time to be liberated by your self of those heavy metal chains that hold you and makes you can't move it?
What or whom really stopped/impede that you do it to really start to enjoy what is in the recording? for the first time in your audio life !
Regards and enjoy the Music Not Distortions,
R. |
Dear @13blm: You can read about through my Agon virtual system..
Btw, of course that when I'm talking of non-damped tonearm design I'm refering to those all metal undamped designs where the FR are the worst of the worst.
You can add to the FR its intrinsic resonances that develop the FR tonearm balanced VTF mechanism design, terrible.
There are other vintage balanced design tonearms with different mechanism that does not develops resonances " per se ", two examples are the Lustre GST 801 and the Micro Seiki MAX 237.
IMHO when FR designes those 66/64 models they had no single idea of the cartridge needs and LP needs.
Remember, that I'm not taling here of what we like it that's irrelevant on the " truer to the recording " subject. What any one likes is another matters and does not changes what I'm talking about for years!
Regards and enjoy the Music Not Distortions,
R. |
Dear @13blm: """
what equipment have you found meets your criteria? """
Truer to the recording is a concept. A concept based to reduce and achieve/approach MINIMUM distortions at each single linl in the whole audio system chain.
Everything the same a non-damped tonearm generates higher distortions than a well damped design. It's in the tonearm/ cartridge where we need to damp every kind of distortions/resonances that get dirty the musical recorded information. That " dirty " is something that is not in the recording and just add very very high distortions/colorations.
Due to severe tube electronics technology limitations it happens the same.
But we have to take care about at each single link in the audio system chain, at least if we want to stay nearer to that: truer to the recording.
Btw, @karl_desch when your system is truer to the recording ALWAYS will enjoy the MUSIC as ever before in your audio life. No doubt about.
Regards and enjoy the Music Not Distortions,
R. |
Dear @terry9 : """ Yes you like what you listen but is far away from what’s in the recording ... """
""" You like ( as many other gentlemans. ) what for many years you learnend through the corrupted AHEE ( where we all belongs. ) that still today push you and to all audiophiles to live listening as if you were living and listening a 40’s audio system. You are in that jail and the AHEE has not the key to let you out, only you can do it changing your targets. """
Please accept my sincere apologies to you when I posted both statements addressed to you.
Was a terrible mistake because those statements were not addressed to you. I’m sorry I don’t know what I was thinking in that moment. My " stupid " fault/mistake.
What was addressed to you was:
""" no one posted true facts that proved that what I posted is totally wrong: that tubes and non-damped tonearms can’t honor what’s in the recording. If you have those facts please share with us, every single day is a leraning day and I’m always willing to. "
Non-damped tonearms means higher resonances against well damped tonearms and tube electronics has severe limitations because that technology is truly limited to use with top quality audio targets as : truer to the recording. Tha’s all.
You posted it’s not true and that’s why I ask you for facts that could tell us that a non-damped tonearm ( vintage or today comercial designs. ) works better than a well damped design to approach in nearer way: truer to the recording.
Again accept my apologies and I hope you can give those facts. ( everything the same. )
Regards and enjoy the Music Not Distortions,
R. |
Dear @terry9 : """
even if that remark were incontrovertibly true, which it certainly is not, it was churlish . """
Please don't feel ofended because a true and real fact can't ofend any one by the contrary: a lie is an ofense always.
You said that that fact " certainly it's not " but you give no single facts as foundation for your statement.
In the other side in many many threads I posted several facts ( I'm sure you read it at least one of my posts about. ), that no one and I'm meaning it repeat no one posted true facts that proved that what I posted is totally wrong, why tubes and non-damped tonearms can't honor what's in the recording. If nyou have those facts please share with us, every single day is a leraning day and I'm always willing to.
As I said every one has his own audio system reproduction quality level targets and mine is to mimic what's in the recording that you can't have it with your system.
Yes you like what you listen but is far away from what's in the recording and the same for all users of non-damped tonearms.
We can't close the sun with a finger.
You like ( as many other gentlemans. ) what for many years you learnend through the corrupted AHEE ( where we all belongs. ) that still today push you and to all audiophiles to live listening as if you were living and listening a 40's audio system. You are in that jail and the AHEE has not the key to let you out, only you can do it changing your targets.
Btw, the KRSP is not a low compliance cartridge but belong to the medium range compliance.
@karl_desch , everything the same what defines that a cartridge can pick up more information ( tha's what you think against the A90. ), only one characteristic: cartridge tracking abilities and in this regards the A90 is superior to the KRSP.
Sometimes that " added information " , you posted , is only added distortions and not necessary true recorded information. A lower tracking level means higher distortions and less recorded information.
That we like it the sound with added distortions is a totally different issue.
As I posted, everything depends on each one of us targets.
Regards and enjoy the Music Not Distortions,
R.
|
Dear @karl_desch : I owned the KRSP and is a clear positive departure for the terrible quality performance of Koetsu cartridges before it. With this Platinum model Koetsu improved both frequency extremes range. Now we have good highs and better bass range but that's all, it's a departure from but that's all because it's not has excellence level quality.
So you own a very good cartridge in that KRSP.
That you touted it over the A-90 just tell me your preferences that's clear that you only like what you hear and have not as your main target to reproduce in your system what's in the recording where the A-90 is way superior to.
Differences in between audiophiles are mainly the differences on each one system listening main targets.
Mine is to mimic what's in the recording and to achieve it ( at least and just to begin with. ) any one has to stay far away from tubes electronics and away from undamped tonearms, period.
Your main target is way different from mine, no problem enjoy your added distortions and be happy. Sooner or latter all of us learn about.
Regards and enjoy Music Not Distortions.
R. |
