Know of a "Dirt Cheap" tweak?

...and let people listen for themselves and decide. 

And?

The birefringence of the plastic in CDs.

jpmeurer2
Exactly the point!

What are you referring to?

Exactly the point!

Thank you for your opinion.

"I would simply note that Audio Desk System recommends the application of BLACK to the outer edge of CDs. I have done blind listening comparisons with fellow audio enthusiasts utilizing a highly revealing system (Meridian 808.6, ARC Ref40/250SE, Magnepan20.7) with a clear consensus for black over blue/green."

I’m aware. They’re wrong IMHO. As I recall the CD treatment that’s been around forever - Auric Illuminator I and II - also recommends BLACK. I think they even give you free one. They’re wrong too. Now that you mention it, I’m not a big fan of blind listening tests. They don’t prove anything. Again IMHO. As I already pointed out the CD laser nominal wavelength is invisible at 780 nm. I know what you’re thinking - but BLACK absorbs ALL colors AND infrared light. 😀

I would simply note that Audio Desk System recommends the application of BLACK to the outer edge of CDs. I have done blind listening comparisons with fellow audio enthusiasts utilizing a highly revealing system  (Meridian 808.6, ARC Ref40/250SE, Magnepan20.7) with a clear consensus for black over blue/green. 

Ever experimented with double sided Scotch tape?

With clean hands, try a piece on the underside of a component, so that it is also in contact with the vibration control device.  Or between the original feet, and the shelf.  If you have removed the feet, place the tape
between the shelf and the bottom of the vibration control device.

Try this anywhere two pieces meet where electric current is not
present... supporting components, wall treatments, HFTs,
securing cd mats to cd platters...

I think the tape comes in different widths, and is usually available
at craft stores or online.

jpmeurer2
I have found that applying black permanent marker ink to the outer edge of a CD improves the overall sonic quality (better than the blue-green Stoplight).

While I have to admit that’s it’s quite counter-intuitive, black is actually not the best choice for the outer edge and should never be used for the label itself. I think this use of the color black on the outer edge might possibly be an excellent example of expectation bias. On the other hand black should always be used for the inner lip of the CD. Green or blue green is the best all around color for the outer edge but there can be exceptions since the color of the CD influences the sound as well. Blue green happens to be the complementary color of red so one suspects it absorbs red scattered light. But wait! The CD laser is 780 nm - which is invisible! Whaaaaa? Then there’s the color purple, which is also an effective color for the outer edge, who knows why? I might as well mention a notable exception - the Mercury Living Presence classical CDs released in the 90s with those iconic black and white labels. Those CDs should get red ink on the outer edge. 

I have found that applying  black permanent marker ink to the outer edge of a CD improves the overall sonic quality (better than the blue-green Stoplight).
 

sabai,

Could you post some photos that we can look at? I'd like to know how those copper beading cones are inserted in copper caps.

geoffkait,

Thanks for this interesting information.

Sabai, the sound will be more transparent and more coherent compared to the case when they're stored horizontally. 

geoffkait,

Since you seem to have experience with horizontal storage can you be a bit more specific other than your reference to mumbling?

jkbtn,

I use copper beading cones inserted in copper caps. I have no idea if brass will work as well. Never used brass. Give it a go and let us know how this works out. According to Franck Tchang, different metals give different results. Hence his use of various metals in his resonators. Although you may get good results with brass, of course you would need to A/B test in order to ascertain the difference between brass and other metals.

Quick interrupt! If I’m not mistaken the tiny little bowls work for headphones, too. Bigger sound, more energy, more dynamics, subjectively louder, much better and more powerful bass. What the ding dong?! I just installed twenty copper tube caps, half were 1/2" diameter, the rest 1". Almost all were placed in upper corners of the main room and other rooms throughout the place, you know, just to see what would happen. Whoa!!

addendum: I use glue dots to stick the tiny bowls directly to the wall or ceiling surface. One foot out from the actual corner. One one or more of the three surfaces per corner. Use only Super Strength/ Ultra Thin Glue Dots brand.

Hi Sabai/geoffkait,

Can I possibly use brass cones/end caps instead of copper as my DIY resonators?

Sabai

geoffkait,

I just checked your own placement diagram on your site. I see you are using some of the same placements as Franck Tchang.

If you had read further you would have seen my diagram is meant to be only a guide. And that I recommend an SPL meter for best results. Hel-loo! Which is why I provide several lengths of silk string and a large tack with my tiny little bowls. You know, so one can easily move the resonator around to find the BEST LOCATION if you wish to play trial and error. What I write is on that page is,

"...and several different lengths of white silk thread that provide flexibility in locating the best location on the wall without moving the tack around too much. (In BOLD) (See paragraph below for use of SPL meter and test tone in finding optimum locations.) The resonator is first placed 6 feet above the floor on a given wall using the shortest length thread; then, the two longer lengths of thread can be tried to see if lowering the height of the resonator improves the sound. It is recommended that the resonators be used in pairs for reasons of symmetry. Suggested number of resonators per room is 2-6.

All diagrams look similar because the general locations of high pressure peaks are well known, in the general sense, you know, but not in an exact sense - I.e., near room corners, between box type speakers on the wall behind them, on the wall behind the listener, etc. so, the diagram would actually look different for electrostatic or other panel speakers. You know, since the radiation patterns are entirely different.

Sabai wrote,

I have no experience with your resonators so I cannot comment on their effectiveness nor can I compare them to resonators made by other makers -- or my own DIY version. But may I respectfully note that you earlier mentioned that you "... started designing and selling acoustic resonators before acoustic resonators were even a gleam in Franck Tchang’s eye ...". But in a more recent post I note that you refer to your resonators being around for 4 or 5 years. Franck Tchang's resonators came out in 2004.

I wasn't referring to my tiny little bowls. I was referring to my Brilliant Pebbles which are also resonators and which debuted at the HiFi show in London in 2003.

cheers

 
sabai

geoffkait,

Is there an explanation for this improvement related to storage?

- Not that on aware of.

What kind of improvement can be expected?

- Should be sufficient to make you start mumbling to yourself.

Glass microspheres are GREAT! I just used some to create a reflective area at the step coming up to the front door of my house. Also good for creating your own reflective street signs.

Yours Aye

geoffkait,

Is there an explanation for this improvement related to storage? What kind of improvement can be expected?

Here's a dirt cheap tweak. If you are one of those who stores his CDs and or LPs so they are in a horizontal position you will get a lot better sound by storing them all vertically. Some folks use those CD towers that store the CDs horizontally. Those CD towers are bad news. If you have CD towers just flip them on their side so the CDs are all vertical.

geoffkait,

I just checked your own placement diagram on your site. I see you are using some of the same placements as Franck Tchang.

kavakat1,

I used to use ERS paper around cables but the SQ reacted badly.

Would wrapping any cables with yellow Teflon plumber's tape have any effect? If so, why? I know its a strong dielectric. Does it shield cables near each other from interference. Haven't tried it, just wondering if anyone has.

Yours Aye,

geoffkait,

When you state that "I never said Franck Tchang’s diagram wouldn’t work at all", may I respectfully draw attention to your statement that Franck’s placements "are doomed to FAIL for the knock-off attempts of cheap DIYers ". And to your statement that " ... you’re only guessing if you don’t use a SPL meter." I do not think that Franck Tchang was just guessing. I think he went about this very methodically. Otherwise, his placements -- even for so-called "knock-off attempts of cheap DIYers" -- would not work as well as they do. In fact, if they did not work so well across the board I am sure this would have been reported a long time ago starting with Stereo Times and 6 Moons, then moving down the line to Zilplex, Synergistic Research and Audio-Magic. But such is not the case. On the contrary. So, you and I respectfully agree to disagree.

I have no experience with your resonators so I cannot comment on their effectiveness nor can I compare them to resonators made by other makers -- or my own DIY version. But may I respectfully note that you earlier mentioned that you "... started designing and selling acoustic resonators before acoustic resonators were even a gleam in Franck Tchang’s eye ...". But in a more recent post I note that you refer to your resonators being around for 4 or 5 years. Franck Tchang's resonators came out in 2004.

Sabai, I never said Franck Tchang’s diagram wouldn’t work at all. In fact I specifically said that a post or two ago. It’s because you’re close to but not exactly on the 6 dB peak, only at the 2 dB or 3 dB point or whatever. Close but no cigar.

Pop quiz: why are even tinier little bowls also a good idea. 1/2" bowls are what, 1/4 the volume of the 1" bowls?

footnote: Sabai, you forgot to mention Machina Dynamica’s Codename White Poppy acoustic resonators, which have been around for what four or five years? See if you can guess the material I use for my resonators. Betcha can’t. Hint: Machina Dynamica’s Tru Tone Wall Outlet Covers which have been around for 10 years employ the same material (and are also resonators!). There is also Golden Sound’s Acoustic Discs which are not bowls but are basically the same general idea. They’ve been around more than 10 years.

cheers, everybody

geoff kait
machina dynamica

geoffkait,

You stated, "Far be it from me to beat a dead horse but Franck Tchang’s diagram was designed SPECIFICALLY for HIS Special pure Gold, Silver, Platinum and Basic acoustic resonators thus are doomed to FAIL for the knock-off attempts of cheap DIYers. If a DIYer gets good result with Franck Tchang’s diagram it means you were lucky."

Frank Tchang's placements were designed for his resonators. Correct. But this does not mean, ipso facto, that other resonators will not also benefit from these carefully worked out placements. In fact, logic may lead some people to believe that because they worked so well for Franck they may also work well for others since all resonators have one thing in common -- they resonate. The speculation that they are "thus "doomed to fail for so-called knock-off resonators is a non sequitur. Simply because an application is designed for one specific product does not logically meant that it is disqualified from working with other similar products.

So, I believe this horse is far from dead. And it is obvious that others feel the same way, too. We have the examples of Synergistic Research, Zilplex and Audio-Magic following right behind Franck Tchang. And here on the forum we have the example of lexphin who tried his DIYs out using the Franck Tchang placements and got great results -- just like me. Oh, I forgot. This is all just a matter of luck. Franck Tchang was just guessing -- and the rest of us are just lucky because he guessed right.

Although sand may be considered by some (not sure how many) to be passe it works very well, which is what matters. So, cheap DIYers can take solace in the fact that sand gets the job done -- cheaply. The fact that sand is silica and that glass microspheres are also silica may be the reason why.

sabai
The sand has to be dry. If you are taking it off the beach on a dry day it may feel dry but it will still take some airing out to get rid of the residual moisture.

Sand is so passé. I have just one word for you: Glass microspheres. Like the ones I use in my new ISO stand. Sand is what cheap DIYers use when they can't afford the real thing. 😄

Geoff Kait
machina dynamica

sabai

geoffkait,

Simply being direct and to the point. You stated, " ... you’re only guessing if you don’t use a SPL meter." Do you mean that Frank Tchang was only guessing? But then you stated, "It [Franck’s diagram] will get you around 50% of my SPL meter method." If so, nice to hear Franck made some good guesses and that your method is twice as good as Franck’s guess work.

Far be it from me to beat a dead horse but Franck Tchang’s diagram was designed SPECIFICALLY for HIS Special pure Gold, Silver, Platinum and Basic acoustic resonators thus are doomed to FAIL for the knock-off attempts of cheap DIYers. If a DIYer gets good result with Franck Tchang’s diagram it means you were lucky. It’s ridiculous to think that ALL speakers and ALL rooms would exhibit identical dynamic sound pressure mapping. One can't help wondering how Franck Tchang addresses sound pressure peaks that are NOT on any room wall but in the 3-D space of the room. Follow?

At the risk of repeating myself has anyone experimented with tiny bowl resonators smaller than the 7/8" Franck Tchang resonators?

Have a a nice day

The sand has to be dry. If you are taking it off the beach on a dry day it may feel dry but it will still take some airing out to get rid of the residual moisture.

...as for 'cheap', dirt's already been mentioned along with sand.  How much cheaper can one get?!  Go outside with a baggie, scoop some up and avoid the dog's 'deposit', seal bag, go back inside, place bag on CDP or whatever, viola'.

Factoring in 'time=$', still beats anything else I've read.

I think the OP wandered off awhile back...I think I'll go look him up and have a virtual beer or 3....

"...and don't smoke dope, burn your hair..."

Don't have none to spare...;)

Nutmeg....*sheesh*   Banana peels, bath salts, salvia...pretty soon...

"Hey, if you eat the inner lining of *so & so's* speaker cables, you'll think you're sitting front 'n center, 6th row orchestra....but wear Depends..."

"Oh....'scuse me..." *sound of running feet, fading into the distance...*

Don't mind me....just kibitzing...keep those tweaks comin'.  I just gotta go get bricked and cupped and all those other things...most interesting thing to watch other than binge-watching @Midnight....;)

geoffkait,

Simply being direct and to the point. You stated, " ... you’re only guessing if you don’t use a SPL meter." Do you mean that Frank Tchang was only guessing? But then you stated, "It [Franck's diagram] will get you around 50% of my SPL meter method." If so, nice to hear Franck made some good guesses and that your method is twice as good as Franck's guess work.

asvjerry,

My room is indeed untidy -- but the sound is good.

" One of your legs is shorter than the other and both of your feets too long"

...and Yes, one of your legs is now longer than the other....*smirk*

Now, if you opt to do ALL of the above.....

Cups, tile, bricks, sandbags, BB's, metal plates, floor braces, et all...

Your gear will resemble a construction site that needs 'tidying up', and edging towards my 'steampunk' speakers' in general appearance.

Please post pictures....curious minds need a good laugh. ;)

No need to be snippy, Sabai. I started designing and selling acoustic resonators before acoustic resonators were even a gleam in Franck Tchang’s eye. That’s why I know that a SPL meter is the only real way to determine where resonators should be placed in any room. Now, I'm not saying that using Franck Tchang's diagram won't work, it will. It will get you around 50% of my SPL meter method. 

"Never get behind anyone 100%." - my old Boss at NASA

have a nice day

Oh, and one of my favorites, Nivea body wash. Rinses out ear wax.

lexphin,

I'm very glad to hear you are getting such spectacular results -- like me. Franck Tchang did not create his guide out of thin air. He is the original master regarding resonator placement. Everyone else followed him. Of course, variations and adjustments may further refine things. But my experience is that he got this dead right. Your experience reinforces my feeling that his placements are a good place to start -- and possibly to finish.

geoffkait,

Have you actually tried what I and lexphin are reporting here with Frank Tchang's placements using DIY resonators -- and then tried out your own theory to compare? Or is this all just speculation on your part? With all due respect, it is one thing to quote Franck Tchang for the sake of debate. It is another thing to talk from your personal experience. Since you said in your post, "Who knows ..." may we assume that you do not know from your personal experience and are just enjoying the debate?

lexphin

Sabai
Just a quick note on the Franck Tchang placement. I was really not expecting much.....HOLY CRAP!! was I WRONG! The soundstage opened up in height, width and especially depth. Vocals were so much clearer. I do have a fairly revealing system, so others results may vary, depending on their gear, but this is one cheap tweek everyone should try. About 3 hours of labor including research, pick up of supplies, installation and about $20 out of pocket, yielded what I would consider a $1000`s worth of improvement!

Who knows, if you had used a SPL meter instead of a rough guide you might have considered it a $3000 worth of improvement. When you don’t place the tiny little bowls precisely on the sound pressure peak you wind up with a local maximum. If you’re off by 6" you can miss the peak entirely. Hel-loo! In addition, Franck Tchang points out that the recommended locations are intended for HIS resonators, I.e., the locations are specific to his GOLD, SILVER and PLATINUM resonators, depending on location. Which IMHO is all the more reason to look deeper into the placement of whatever resonators you’re using. For example, Franck Tchang writes,

"Step 4 should only use the Silver or Gold Special models. This position is very effective to open up the corners. The wooden base must be installed on the sidewall but butt right up against the front wall. It should sit slightly lower than the center resonator of Step 3 but no lower than 5cm from the ceiling."

Sabai
   
   Just a quick note on the Franck Tchang placement. I was really not expecting much.....HOLY CRAP!! was I WRONG! The soundstage opened up in height, width and especially depth. Vocals were so much clearer. I do have a fairly revealing system, so others results may vary, depending on their gear, but this is one cheap tweek everyone should try. About 3 hours of labor including research, pick up of supplies, installation and about $20 out of pocket, yielded what I would consider a $1000`s worth of improvement!

Two things improved the overall sound quality dramatically. I re-terminated the speaker cables, replacing the spades with the locking banana plugs. (if your amp has some fancy binding posts with a large contact area for the spade you don't to need to). Another thing I did was to move the speakers away the back wall. By the way I noticed that the OP started this thread 16 years ago. Wow.

So, anyway, has anyone played around with 1/2" diameter bowls? Just curious....

geoffkait,

In my system Franck's basic diagram works very well. Franck eliminated a lot of the guess work for me. YMMV.

Sabai, Franck’s guide to locations for resonators is just that - a guide. Even he says that. Every room is different. If your location is off by 6 or 12" that can make all the difference in the world, as you missed the peak. The real locations vary from room to room, system to system, speaker to speaker. Speakers radiate different patterns so there cannot be one size fits all. And that’s why you’re only guessing if you don’t use a SPL meter. And I'm not even getting into the RFI angle.

One mans dirt cheap tweak is a others man arm and leg. Keeping all cable connections clean is great. Getting speaker cables off the floor is one more that i feel helps. Replaceing wall out lets with audio grade plugs is al so great, but not really cheap depending on which one you use. I have found the biggest bang for the buck High Fidelity MC O5s easy to use. May be not dirt cheap but a tweak that delivers a sonic improvement.
enjoy Pete

lexphin,

I forgot to mention to place one on the ceiling -- at the crossing of the diagonals from one corner to the other, in the exact middle of the ceiling -- as per SR. Zilplex also uses the same location.

geoffkait,

Franck Tchang has saved us a lot of trouble by homing in for us -- identifying the best locations for his Acoustic Resonators. This works well for my own cone-style resonators a la HFT. SR, Zilplex and Audio-Magic following with their own location maps for their resonators, bowls and bells. Of course, we can add or subtract as needed using a meter and/or trial and error.