Get the 7U from Ty and if you don't like it, use the return rights Ty is GREAT to work with.
The two are completely different speakers though.
Suggest you hear for yourself if you've still got the KLF-20's available. I agree....the 20's are a GREAT value!
I haven't listened to both, but have owned my KLF-20's for six years. My comments then will only be about the KLF-20 and it's qualities and performance.
My room size:
15W x 20L x 8H
Two dedicated cicuits
Audio Magic Stealth Matric power purifier
EAD CD-1000 mkIII
Plinius 8100 SS integrated amp 100watts/ch
VooDoo Reference Bi-Wire
Let me also preface that I have upgraded my KLF-20's crossover networks with better parts.
Since the Klipsch speakers are very efficient, they will play alot louder, assuming that the amps are of the same power rating. Dynamics and frequency extension is exceptional. The only weak point which the KLF-20's is that the midrange is not the strongest.
If you do decide on the KLF-20's or any Klipsch for that matter, upgrading the crossover networks are an absolute must.
Thanks for your response.
Yes, I know about 20 day trial period. However, two way shipping would be over $250, so I am a little bit cautious.
Well, I would agree that those are very different speakers. Am I comparing apple to orange? Or, the simple price difference tells that they are in completely different leagues?
What would be lacking in KLF-20?
Is there anything missing in 7U compared to KLF-20?
Can it be done easy to upgrade the crossover network? How much?
I have KLF-20, KLF-C7, and KSP6 in my home theater setup with Yamaha RXV-3000. I am looking for one for a separate stereo setup, and Taylo 7U is being seriously considered.
I can set up the 2 channel stereo at my living room (25x30) or basement (15W x 30L x 8H).
I guess the selection of amp that goes by with 7U (or whatever speakers I choose) would be also important. My current stereo amps are 50W int tube amp (made in China) and Nakamichi SR-3A receiver. They work well with KLF-20, but may not be powerful enough for 7U.
To narrow down my question, with 50Watt int tube amp, which would go better? KLF-20 or 7U?
Ihcho, i have a 40 watt intergrated tube amp, the JOR and have the Thor speakers, which is exactly like Tyler's Linbrook Sig Monitor, a MTM, using dual 7 midbass and the Seas Millinium tweet. Have no problems with power issues.
The 7U's use the Scanspeak tweet. The Linbrook Sig Monitors use the much much better tweeter, The Seas Millinium/T25. There is a used pr for $1700/obo. Sure its not the full standing tower, but stands would work just fine. The Linbrook Sig Monitor has bass/clean-no muddy mids-crisp highs. You may wish to ask Ty , he also mau have some demo LSM's. Or even even work the xover to replace the Scanspeak witha Millinium.
btw what tube amp are you using?
I too have the KLF-C7 as my center with the KLF-20's serving as my left and right. I can upgrade all your Klipsch speaker crossover networks for you. I'll email you my cell and we can discuss upgrade options.
If you have a 50w int tube amp, no question Klipsch is a great match. Klipsch speaker love tubes!
I'll drop you my contact information.
A 50 watt integrated tube amp will drive the 7Us just fine. That said, Tyler speakers in general are very revealing, so while a 50 watt integrated will drive them fine, the model of that 50 watter will most likely make a difference as to getting the most out of the 7Us. As for Bartokfan's comments, I will respectfully disagree on a couple things...
The 7Us are not the same speaker as the Thors (although they do share some of the same drivers). The crossovers are different and the internal design is not quite the same either. As for the tweeter, IMO the Millenium tweeter is on par with the Revelator, but no better (and the Revelator actually costs more). The Revelator is a bit more detailed, while the Millenium is a bit more natural sounding. It really is a tie to my ears, and will be more determined by your personal preferences than anything else -- both are exceptional. I have Tyler speakers with both versions of the tweeters and both implementations sound tremendous. Ty will indeed swap the Scanspeak for the SEAS in the 7Us (or any of his other speakers) if you prefer the Millenium, and tweak the crossover to match accordingly for no extra charge for the swap, BTW.
How does your post address Ihcho's original questions:
1.Has anyone listened to these two speakers?
3.Am I right in assuming that 7U would be with all the goodies the Ref monitor has and would work far better in a bigger room?
He didn't ask about your amp and/or speakers. I'm surprised you didn't mention Cayin.
Many thanks for the reply.
My amp is Yaqin MC10L. They sell in ebay at around $450 ~ $600. It is rated 52WPC at 8 ohm, but appears more like 40WPC. It has connectors for both 8 ohm and 4 ohm speakers.
I see more and more Chinese made tube amps are coming and more and more audiphiles in Europe and USA are trying them out and have very good reviews on them.
I talked to Ty and he told me that 50Watt tube amp would be able to drive 4ohm 92dB speakers at normal listening level without a problem.
I am a newbie and don't know much about those crossovers.
Overall, I feel that it is worth a try. I will give a shot as soon as I get enough $$$ on my hands.
Many thanks for all your opinion.
I own many Klipsch speakers and am very fond of Klipsch as they are great speakers for hearing the details and very dynamic speakers and gives the real true sense of being LIVE and REAL as if you are there listening to the music. They are not polite or laid back speakers, so if you like polite such speakers than Klipsch may not be for you.
I own two sets of Klipsch KLF-20 speakers. One set has the (2001 model) original Klipsch stock crossovers and the other set has (1996 model) changed updated crossovers done by the previous owner of the speakers that I purchased from a Klipsch forum member who had the crossovers done by one of the well known guys there that do great quality crossover work. I am the original owner of the 2001 model and have not changed the crossovers in that model and will probably leave them all original Klipsch.
In audio, as one learns, it is all subjective. I have learned that for some, sonic improvements can be viewed as HUGE, Night and Day, Big Improvement! For others it can be small sonic improvements, or not much different. That's why I like to get a detailed technical evaluation that is complete to really sort things out logically to weed out over stated dramatic hyped up statements to the real true facts of improvements.
Vman71, to his ears is a true believer in changing crossovers for such improvements. I'm not doubting him on what he believes or hears but what I do know is that making a statement as
"upgrading the crossover networks are an absolute must" is where I strongly disagree! This sort of statement leaves one to believe that in order for the speakers to sound any good at all, then one must change the crossovers and this is too far from truth.
Klipsch generally makes good quality crossovers that sound great in original stock form right out of the box, so what I am saying the KLF-20's are great speakers and you can run them just fine with the stock crossovers and they sound great that way, until then when you feel the need to have the crossovers brought to the next level and have the extra $$$ to do so, you can do it then but it's definitely NOT an "absolute must" to do so right away. Take your time, listen and enjoy the stock klipsch crossovers for a while if you don't have the $$$ right away or even if you feel the stock crossovers are fine for you. I'm just saying it is not an "absolute must" that you do anything with the crossovers right away! They are good to go as they are, that's why Klipsch is so well known and liked, because they do make great sounding speakers.
I just wanted to give you some honest advice on it if you decide to get the speakers. I really don't see how you wouldn't love the Klipsch KLF-20's because they are great speakers and I've owned many different kinds of speakers, and still do, but Klipsch speakers still remain one of my most favorite speakers because of the live, real, dynamic, and you are there presentation that Klipsch gives you. If these are the qualities you are after, Klipsch is for you!
Ok, so you already have the KLF-20's it sounds like.
Yamaha and Klipsch by many are not considered the best synergy combo and the Yamaha by many seem to say it is too bright for Klipsch. I think your biggest improvement would come from going with something on the lines of Rotel that many say goes excellent with Klipsch and leans slightly towards the warmer side that goes very well with Klipsch speakers. I would look into changing that side of things for the biggest improvements! You have great speakers with the KLF-20's and they are really hard to beat for even 2 or 3 times the cost. You have great speakers already. Look into a different amplication for largest improvements and if you want to take things from there later.... you could try updating the crossovers in the KLF-20's like Vman71 suggest if you feel you need the changes, just get Vman71 to list out in detail for you what changes you will hear of improvements and weigh them against what you are after in a speaker and see if it fits for you. Again, Good Luck! :)
Since you own two sets of KLF-20s, one stock and one with upgraded xovers, it would have made sense for you to comment on what you think the differences are between the two. It would also have made sense for you to describe your room size and system to give some perspective on your comments.
You say That's why I like to get a detailed technical evaluation that is complete to really sort things out logically to weed out over stated dramatic hyped up statements to the real true facts of improvements. K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid
..it either sounds better or it doesnt. Obviously, you dont read/belong to the Klipsch forum, because you would have read/known that EVERYONE who has upgraded their Klipsch xovers, recommends upgrading Klipsch xovers because of the sonic improvements. They even go as far as saying you havent heard Klipsch until youve upgraded the xovers. When its a unanimous statement like that, that speaks volumes. So its not just my ears.
I took the time to familiarize myself with my KLF-20s in stock form for 4 years, so I know how good they are in stock form. I then spent my personal time and money to upgrade the internals, which (since I did the work) know how cheap the parts are and that those cheap parts will hold this speaker back from their full potential. So let me make this clear for you, the KLF-20s sound very good in stock form but until you upgrade the xovers, you will never hear the full potential of these speakers.
You say Klipsch generally makes good quality crossovers that sound great in original stock form right out of the box. If that was the case, then why do the majority of people on the Klipsch forum upgrade their stock xovers? That is because the stock xovers use very cheap parts, plain and simple. Now, do they sound good in stock form, well that depends on many things and is very subjective. Overall, yes they do sound good in stock form and many people could live with them that way. For the people who want to get the most out of these speakers and take them from good to great, you have to upgrade the xovers.
That is factual and honest advice, from a person who has owned these speakers in stock and upgraded form; from a person who has taken the time to verify and research the quality of components used in the stock xover networks and carefully select better replacement parts with higher performance capabilities.
I'm a bit taken back by your response. You loose some respect and credibility with me when you choose to call someone stupid and such. There is no need for
I am a member of the Klipsch forum. We all don't agree on the same things even there as you well know. The majority users there like the changes the crossovers provide. Some have said it's a nice subtle improvement, some say it's a huge improvement. I try not to give my personal opinions too much on such matters (gets some folks upset) as the crossovers because I don't feel that the improvement was as big of a difference as some had claimed. The difference between both my KLF-20's are more subtle improvements than I expected. It has been pointed out many times by others that it will be more subtle improvements with better equipment and larger improvements with lesser quality equipment. In my case it's more subtle, as I am running them on some expensive gear. It's not enough in my case to have the crossovers done on my second pair, and yes... I'm fine with how the stock crossovers sound on that pair.
No one always agress on everything, especially not in audio. It is all subjective. I certainly don't agree with the majority of the Klipsch forum members who feel the Klipschorn's are by far superior than the Klipsch RF-7's! I have both and they both are my most favorite speakers out of the complete Klipsch line, and both can do things the other can't. We all like different things, have different ideas and such, so there is no need to be hostile just because I'm giving some reflection of my own personal opinion, and I'm more of a minority on the Klipsch forum than how the masses feel and think as you can see. Doesn't mean I am right or you are wrong.
I have no doubt in my mind how you feel the improvements are creditable and I won't argue with you about that, no need to, but saying that upgrading the
klipsch crossovers is an absolute must is just misleading information. They do sound good as they are, and as I said before, it will do anyone well until they have the funds to seek your service to take the speakers to the next level. It's just not an "absolute must" as you said to upgrade for them to be listenable. It gives the wrong impression of these fine speakers.
I wish you well and have a good week.
I've decided to go for Taylo 7U.
Nobody so far has been able to provide direct comparison report on those two speakers. Yes, they are very different speakers and I will be able to listen to both of them in 2 weeks or so, and probably be able to tell some.
I've already listened to Taylo ref monitor in my friend's friend's small apartment living room, and with Plinius ss 175W integrated amp, it sounded more detailed and full with wider sound stage. So, I would expect 7U is only better, but the question still remains that if I would feel the same thing in my wider room with much lesser Yaqin amp (and lesser CD player).
I am not thinking of crossover upgrade right now, but if 7U gives far superior sound, then I may feel more urge on upgrading KLF-20 later on.
Again, thanks for your thought.
[email protected]: Vman71, I'm a bit taken back by your response. You loose some respect and credibility with me when you choose to call someone stupid and such. There is no need for this!
Hi JK, you might be misinterppreting Vman71. He did not call anyone stupid. He mentioned "K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid" which is a legitimate expression in modern American English (going back to Apollo sspace programs at least). Look at this Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
Or try the google search:http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=Keep+it+simple+stupid&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
More recently KISS has inspired other expressions in similar vein; perhaps the best known of these is "It's the economy, stupid".
Don't take them personally. Cheers.
Hello jk. I have to respectfully disagree with you. And totally agree with Vman. I have 3 sets of Deang upgraded crossovers on 1981 Cornwalls,
1983 Cornwalls & 1989 industrial LaScalas.
I own 4 separate systems-both solid state separates-power amp/preamp & tube separates-power
amp/preamp. Separates will let you hear a huge improvement in sonics over the stock Klipsch crossover networks. I don't possess golden ears or am I an audiophile snob. I am just a music lover that likes good quality high performance gear. With more expensive gear, it will easily let you hear the higher fidelity sonic improvement over the stock Klipsch crossover networks. I am not b.s.ing. There are more people
over at the Klipsch Forum that hear a huge improvement than those that do not. The people that hear a sonic improvement usually own more expensive gear-ie separates-power amp/preamp.
Aktchi, Thanks for the info and clearing that up for me!
Appreciate it! :)
Lonestarblues, The majority do feel the same way you do. I do understand that but maybe I'm just not that lucky with mine, or maybe my ears aren't as tuned in to it as others? ;) thanks.