Wow.
KEF blades 2 or Dynaudio C4?
Hi guys, I am trying very soon the Luxman monos M900. I am wondering based on your experience and knowledge which speakers of these two would be a better match for them?
My room 18x12. High ceilings.
I prefer low volume music effortless neutral sound. I had owned KEF 3 and I liked them a lot.
But today I asked three dealers and I got mixed opinions.
I do appreciate your time giving me your opinion. Kind regards.
Thank you.
My room 18x12. High ceilings.
I prefer low volume music effortless neutral sound. I had owned KEF 3 and I liked them a lot.
But today I asked three dealers and I got mixed opinions.
I do appreciate your time giving me your opinion. Kind regards.
Thank you.
150 responses Add your response
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D2girls you must be kidding. Mr. Feil is attacking us so it calls into attention his motives and thus it also requires us to stipulate how and why we are different, this may come across to you as bragging but the reality is we display a lot of gear and if you had looked at the pictures we posted then it would be clear to you we can walk the walk and talk the talk because we have actual experience. Mr. Feil is a failed no nothing dealer with a nearly unknown store that he ran in upstate NY. His product lines and his inability to show even a picture of his store, calls into attention that his experience was severely limited to a handful of lines with most not being the market leaders in their respective fields. Perhaps he is jealous we have no idea. The point was to demonstrate that we have a real store with a large selection of products and our knowledge comes from experience with these products particularly KEF. I don't know about you but if you look at our posts we have never called out another displaying dealer the way Mr Feil has and keeps on attacking us. What we have said is some dealers setup system better then others and not all demos of products are going to produce glorious results when the room and matching equipment is not up to snuff especially with very high performance speakers with great resolution. D2girls you have never set foot in our shop, nor have you ever talked with us, so in reality you know very little about what we do and how we work. The reality is a client is flying me out to CA to tune up his system, and another gentleman is going to be visited time allowing for me to work on his system as well. Good luck D2girls. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
D2girls are you and Bil Feil the same lame person? We have given reasons for all of the above points. The only way you truly know anything is good is by comparing it to the know references, do you think the Ford F40 is not compared to the Ferrari and Lambos? The best products in the industry got there by raising the stakes in terms of engineering, product design and of course sound quality. D2girls you love your Harbeths did you compare them to any other loudspeakers before you decided that the Harbeths were the best choice for you? Did you compare them with known reference products? Every new product will always be compared to the reference leaders and only by matching them or beating them will you validate your product. Here is my resume in the audio industry: I was the top salesman at Sound by Singer in NYC for close to 12 years, and 3 years with Innovative Audio. 15 years at Audio Doctor. Trained in loudspeaker setup by Dave Wilson, was taught the Sumiko method of loudspeaker setup by John Hunter. Top Wilson Audio salesman, top Transparent Audio salesman, Top Vac salesman. Studied acoustics with Toni Grimmni, Home Theater Design with Russ Herschelman, Haptics with Keith Yates. Designed a $500k four room professional audio setup for Tommy Boy Records, 1992, setup Quintessential Sounds mixing/listening suite 1993 Designed and fabricated Home Theater for Rev Run as seen on Rev Runs Renovation 2014, Season 2 Epsiode 9 Secret Cinema, Did several major NY Audio Shows. 2008, 2012,2013, 2016, 2017 Numerous New York City Showhouses for major NYC Interior Designers. You know about our store and brands and products and experience, we are all over the internet. The point Mr. Feil we know your shop is closed, our posts come from knowledge and experience, where does your knowledge and experience come from? We asked you to provide pictures of your closed establishment, or don’t you have any? Your negativity speaks of pettiness and jealousy. Your move Feil please regale us with evidence of your years of professional audio experience. I am willing to bet you will give some lame excuse why there is nearly zero evidence your business ever existed. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
We must apologize to all of the nice people on this thread especially Mountainsong. We do not like being attacked by negative people for no known reason. GIve us a call, visit our shop and judge for yourself. We have many people that take our advice and are very happy with the choices made. These forum posts should not be about bashing dealers but instead by discussing products. The only way we learn is by being exposed to products and the knowledge on how to use them. The moderators here need to monitor these posts and create an off topic hot button, if you are not on the topic your post shouldn't be published Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
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I agree with fast. Even if I don't agree with someone's speaker choice I do my best to try and understand their choice. In fact, I can usually find an aspect I enjoy and if their is none, we can enjoy what is most important the music. I would rather listen to good music on a bad system then bad music on a good system. |
@mountainsong None of the above speakers are "better" than what you currently have... Kef Blades especially, are exceptionally mediocre.... C4 as with most Dynaudio are just bland..... If you are itching for new hi fi ish sounding speakers that would sound great in your room/set-up, try the new Bowers & Wilkins 703 S2 in rosewood (black finish makes them slightly but noticeably brighter sounding, due to the polished surface)... At about $ 3200 or so, these are much more musically coherent than ANY Kefs at ANY price, especially with your amps .... Just need about 500-600 hour break in . You just need to listen to these with an open mind and ignore the equipment price/sound perception that afflicts most folks in this hobby... The Luxman amps are utterly mediocre and flat sounding as well, considering their price, as is the most modern hi fi gear from Japan .... Just my couple of cents ... |
I'm confused about the comment regarding KEF Muon being a copy of the Dynaudio C4. I just don't see any sort of resemblance. The Muon, introduced in 2008 is an all-aluminum cabinet shell with activated carbon damping material lining it. The Muon carries 4 front-firing and 2 rear-firing 10" low frequency drivers, 1 low-midrange 10", 5" upper midrange and one 1" aluminum tweeter. And it's a closed-box speaker. The Dynaudio C4 is a conventional MDF, wood, and metal cabinet, has two 8" woofers, two 6" midrange, and twin 1-1/8" Esostar2 soft dome tweeters. It is a rear ported box. I'm not sure when it came out, but I doubt it was as far back as 2008. Lastly, the list price on Muon is $220,000US, not $150,000US. These two speakers couldn't be more different in technology, drivers, cabinets, though they could potentially be priced further apart. ;) |
Sorry Pops hate to disagree there is next to no evidence on the web to validate your claim even if Mr Feil shut down his bus three years ago there should be some proof of his store and brands. Acoustic Zen and Atmosphere are decent products but market leaders they are not. So Pops what did you get from Feil. As per Blades being mediocre Kot The speakers have been rated Class A by Stereophile as well as most of the respected press. And Yes Blades are better then Ref 3 and 5 we have all three loudspeakers on display. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
@ wcfeil Well we are just stating our personal, subjective opinions, that is all :) . By the way , I ve met and spoken with David, the Audio Doctor many times within the last 30 years, both at the Sound by Singer and the Innovative Audio, and after he opened his shop, and have to say that he is one of the nicest (if not the the nicest), most friendliest, patient people in the NY audio scene and in general. The fact of matter is that is we all hear differently & have different sonic priorities when it comes to acoustical transducers, that is all... However if I were interested in any equipment that David carries , he d be my first choice by a long mile.... So I don't understand the animosity toward a fellow audiophile who also has brick/ location (too few of those left!!!) and trying to make a hard buck dealing with an obsessive compulsive crowd with so many phobias and syndromes that would have many a shrink committed. I should know, I used to be (or still am) one of those ;) . In any event there is that Syntheisis tube kt - 66 amp from Italy that I have been lusting over for a while, that Audio Doc carries, so may be I will pay him a visit sometime soon... ;) @David, The rating in the Stereophile has lost much of its meaning/cache a long time ago, and has been just guide, nothing more ...May be to scratch some owner's egos .... You of people should know that....We should use our own ears ... As a matter of fact same goes for Robert Harley's reviews... His rave (of most everything he he does) "reviews" are like mark of death, in the opinion of many an audiophile who have their hearing intact and some familiarity with the sound of live classical music.... Julian Hirsch (if you still remember him) would be proud.... Again strictly (not) IMHO ... :) Cheers fellow inmates ....and enjoy your Sunday morning rendezvous with your music before NFL starts... |
kot, "Well we are just stating our personal, subjective opinions, that is all :) . The rating in the Stereophile has lost much of its meaning/cache a long time ago, and has been just guide, nothing more ...May be to scratch some owner's egos .... You of people should know that....We should use our own ears". I love how you chose to defuse the situation by simply stating it's your personal, subjective opinion in lieu of arguing. I couldn't agree more with your statements. I just wish "we" could learn to respect each other's opinions and stop all the nonsense that goes on when our opinions differ. |
I’m confused. Are storeowners comparing store size and audio conquests? Seems odd and who really cares. Didn’t know the audio industry had so many blowhards. @mountainsong has this thread helped? If you like the KEF sound I would stick with them. I have heard both at audio shows and the c4 recently at someone’s home (not the newest version). I thought they were good, but not impressed given the $$. However, I give the edge to the KEFs. |
mindlessminion, The issue is when certain people attack others for no reason. When you are a displaying dealer it kind of makes you an expert on that product, hence one must question the motivation of someone who has never sold that product, which then leads to the discussion of the expertise of lack of expertise of both parties. The kind of store and the products you sell set a benchmark on to the type of dealer you are either you are an A list dealer selling the best brands of gear which are not easy to get those franchises or you are not, it is like selling Mercedes or BMW vs selling a much lesser known less respected car, that is not to say that some of these lesser known audio brands are not good, but as mentioned before there are benchmark products that many brands are going to be compared to so by having those products it does help to establish your frame of reference. Kot thank you for your kind words you kind of have me at a disadvantage, can you PM so I know who you are? As per the Synthesis the A100T is one incredible intergraded tube amp and the built in dac is really quite good. If you have never visited our store please come in for a visit we have some really cool gear on display, including Naim reference stack, T+A gear, KEF, Dali, Paradigm, Legacy, ATC, Rethem, Quad, Cabasse speakers, CJ, Manley and so many others. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Up to this day (my life experience includes 4 years of undergraduate study BS, 2 years of post graduate study MBA, 4 years US Navy, and 30 years as an executive in the chemical industry) I’ve had the opportunity to travel on 4 continents meeting tens of thousands of people. Physicists, accountants, engineers, CEO’s, chemists, production workers, CFO’s, marketing managers, truck drivers, physicians, computer analysts, logistics managers, sales directors, etc. i.e employees from virtually all occupations representing many industries. The common thread running through all these individuals is the very best of them, the leaders in their fields, the most knowledgeable, the crème de la crème if you will, never consider themselves “experts”. They are astute and wise enough to understand their limitations and shortcomings but instead realize they have much more to learn. So when you read a chest thumping rooster proclaiming himself (herself) an “expert”, understand it’s almost always a self absorbed inflated ego making noise not expertise you’re hearing and please consider the agenda behind it. |
@audiotroy Apologies to mountainsong for getting off the topic..... David, I almost bought the Apogee Divas from Sound by Singer in mid 90s, during one of those Apogee&mini audio show seminars that Andy Singer ’s store graciously held (and those were really educational and enlightening for young people such as myself, talk about Andy Singer’s foresight and business acumen), and Jason Bloom (RIP) conducted.... You were VERY enthusiastic about those marvelous DIVAS and rightfully so... To this very day I regret NOT buying them from you that day, but alas there were too big for those damned NYC apartments with their cramped dimensions and litigious neighbors (sigh)... Now THOSE DIVAS were a masterpiece worthy of your enthusiasm, unlike many modern day mass market sound pressure producers that would make one’s ears hurt .... As far as the Synthesis the AT line is good, but their Metropolis integrated with kt 66 could be of the reference quality (with the Mastersound sadly having ridiculously pricing themselves into the insane regions) ... They have finally revised the internals ( I guess they had realized that 8 kt 66 tubes half an inch away from a logic board, and crucial connections was a ticking melt down bomb, that an audiophile acquaintance of mine experienced in Italy).... But that is the subject of another discussion :)... Good listening evening to you , sir :) |
@audiotroy what you say seems accurate, an expert on the products you sell. However, I do not think this is the issue. I surmise a Honda salesman is an expert in Honda’s too. However, you think as a car buyer I walk-in asking said salesman, “Honda or Toyota” Toyota will get a fair shake? If i may ask, What are your top 3 speakers you do not sell? |
Focal Sopra are superb, haven't heard the new Magico A3 but am I dying to, There are very few speakers that we don't sell that we would actually would want to. We used to sell the Scaena Line arrays mind blowing, the company was impossible to do business with the speakers were really fantastic. Top three lines to answer you question: 1: Focal Sopra2: Scaena Line Arrays3: Magico A3 depending on voicing if they sound less sterile then when we last heard them. Dave and TroyAudio Doctor NJ |
Looking from the amp driving them point of view the Kef is far harder to drive than the Dynaudio https://www.stereophile.com/images/615KEF2fig01.jpg https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/DynConfFig1.jpg I'd say the Lux mono's could handle either. Cheers George |
I am afraid to say that audiogone is turning on a very uninteresting place. Where instead of the hobby old talks it is all about who knows everything or a constant attack to dealers or former ones. It makes me feel as the wrong place to start the audio journey. I started this post and I already feel wasn't my topic long ago..thank you to those that stay helpful and tune. Regards |
Mountainsong, if you are on the East Coast we might be able to get a trial pair of Blade 2 for you to try, considering we have most of the line and have a very good working relationship with KEF, we might be able to get a trial pair for you. We have the big Blades and the Ref 5 so if you want to check either of those out that would be our pleasure. As per the Ref 5 we have tried them in our small demo room which is 18 by 14 and they sounded magnificent, in that room, they were about 3 feet from the rear wall. We haven't heard the new Luxman gear, we were dealers for the older Luxman gear, we did a shootout of the Luxman C800 vs the T+A PA HV preamp vs preamp the the T+A was far cleaner. Whatever you decide we would love to be able to assist you if we can. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
@mountainsong the 1.5 meter distance from the side walls is OPTIMAL so you will get the most out of these speakers. Too many people make the mistake of putting these speakers too close to the side walls. After more than 50 hours of testing speaker positions, mine are 4 feet from the side walls and 4.5 feet from the back walls. While these speakers are quite sensitive to placement, the good news is that they are relatively light as compared to other speakers in their price and performance range so they are easy to more around. I chose not to use the spikes and used Stillpoints on mine. If you can arrange for an in-home trial, that would be optimal, but based on what I know about your taste in music and equipment, I am sure you will be very happy with the Blade 2s. I really haven’t heard anything that sounds better at that price point (over even $10,000 more). The Blade 2s have me now engaged with the music as opposed to kicking in the OCD thoughts regarding "how can I get better sound"! Keep us posted. |
Greginnh thanks for steering us back. I have to agree with you on the Blades. We had our Blades at the New York Audio Show 2012 at that time our ref electronics were Chord. Our setup Blade 1 with Chord Ref monos and Pre was an expensive setup the entire system cables electronics sources racks was about 150k went down the hall heard a 400k YG Sonja Solution setup it wasnt better. So yes a well setup pair of Blades is pretty awesome. We are using Isoacoustics under the Blades way less expensive then Stiilpoints nearly as good. Dave and Troy Audiodoctor NJ |
If you want low volume listening chose something with metal or ribbon
tweeter. I heard both and the C4 is so good and I like it to play loud more than lower volume and the Blade was too warm to my taste. You may check Paradigm Persona, MonitorAudio platinum or Custom made by selahaudio http://www.selahaudio.com/speakers/. Ask him what you want and he will guide you |
I owned both. I recently sold my C4 which I owned for 8 years to go to the blade 2. I had a couple months with the salon 2 in between as well. I like the blade 2 better. A lot better. C4 is nice but an old design and I think the dealer getting all the flak sums it up just as I would. The blade 2 is a better speaker. I don’t hear anything near harsh or bright even though the C4 sound dull in comparison. The C4 is still a nice speaker just not as exciting as the blade 2 |
Three homes need three pairs of speakers, tripling the problem of choice. He previously told CNBC and Yahoo Finance’s "Off the Cuff" that he’s "never had any great desire to have multiple houses and all kinds of things and multiple cars." https://www.businessinsider.com/how-warren-buffett-spends-net-worth-philanthropy-2018-10#he-began-building-his-wealth-by-investing-in-the-stock-market-at-age-11-and-currently-runs-berkshire-hathaway-but-you-wouldnt-know-hes-a-billionaire-by-the-way-he-spends-his-money-2 |
Hey) What about a loud music it is very cool, I like it too. I find a good site https://www.bestadvisor.com/best-computer-speakers where you can choose the speakers what you want. In this site very reliable. You should try. |
