Keep noise creators outside your clean power zone


Hi Everyone,

Just a tip for those of you who have invested in power conditioners:

Keep things which generate noise outside of your clean zone.

Power conditioners, unless fully active, are just filters. They are not magic blessing devices. What I mean is that the power that comes in gets filtered, and sent out, but it can be contaminated again! It’s just like your water supply. Makes no sense to use fancy water filters, and storing it in a dirty bucket.

If you can, avoid using wall warts, and network devices like Wifi routers, switches, video streamers etc. on the clean side of your conditioner because they will contaminate the already filtered power. If you have a conditioner with multiple zones, put all your noisy neighbors on the same dirty zone.

I try to solve this by using a less expensive but still very good power strip to create a "de-militarized zone." DMZ for short. The Furman PST-8 is a great way to do this, because it does include really good filtering which goes down to about 3 kHz.

Plug it directly into the wall, not into your conditioner. This will give you the most number of filters between your wall warts and your audio. Of course, other alternatives are to use linear power supplies exclusively, but even then, anything with a network or CPU in it can generate noise that makes it through the power supply.

Lots of other conditioners will work, of course, the Furman with SMP just has great noise handling and ~ $120 is much more affordable than alternatives.

Whatever you do, keep your noisy neighbors outside your clean zone.

Best,

E
erik_squires
If you can, avoid using wall warts, and network devices like Wifi routers, switches, video streamers etc. on the clean side of your conditioner because they will contaminate the already filtered power.

Yeah, no, it doesn’t work like that. Not even close.

First, because there is no "zone". Look at my system for example. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 Where is the "clean power zone"? Can you show me? Is it after the power conditioner? Or is it after the step down transformer? Maybe its after the breaker panel? No? Maybe its the electric meter? Because I have tracked the thing back to the point of using tweaks on the meter box and it works just as well there as everywhere else along the entire power path from that point on. Which is to say all of it. So where exactly is this imaginary zone then?

Second way its nothing like you say, I can disconnect or turn off breakers going to other rooms and hear an improvement. I can put contact enhancers and outlet plugs on stuff in another room clear across the house and still hear the same improvement as when they are used right in the room or even on unused outlets right on my conditioner. So that ones bunk too.

And finally, no wall warts after the conditioner? Have you looked at my system? Have you looked at ANY SYSTEM?! We're gonna get real basic now. Because what is a wall wart, anyway? Did you ever stop to ask yourself that question? A wall wart is nothing but a very simple power supply. Its a transformer, couple diodes, maybe a cap or two. That’s it.

Now please do not take my word for it. Open one up and have a look for yourself. Then do the same with ANY component in your system. Because if you look at ANY COMPONENT in ANY SYSTEM you will find EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has a transformer, diodes, and caps.

Still, in fairness, don’t only knock, also be positive. Point out the stuff the guy got right. DMZ is indeed short for de-militarized zone. Well done.




And finally, no wall warts after the conditioner? Have you looked at my system? Have you looked at ANY SYSTEM?! We're gonna get real basic now. Because what is a wall wart, anyway? Did you ever stop to ask yourself that question? A wall wart is nothing but a very simple power supply. Its a transformer, couple diodes, maybe a cap or two. That’s it.



Oh Miller, how your legs must cramp after your knee jerks that hard. I'd reply to this with facts and information, but like a petulant child, you wait for me to post something, say something negative and then run away.

You are the best proof of my importance int his forum, and I am so grateful.

Best,

E
You may wish to open up a cell-phone charger, external router supply, etc. and tell us what is inside it.

"And finally, no wall warts after the conditioner? Have you looked at my system? Have you looked at ANY SYSTEM?! We're gonna get real basic now. Because what is a wall wart, anyway? Did you ever stop to ask yourself that question? A wall wart is nothing but a very simple power supply. Its a transformer, couple diodes, maybe a cap or two. That’s it. "
I agree to a certain extent....for instance moving my router 10 feet away from my rack made a huge difference.  The problem is you can't keep your audio components outside of your "clean" zone.  So much of the noise that is generated is coming straight from your gear itself.....toroidal transformers etc...  Isolation helps and rack placement can be very important in some instances...for me it was lengthy trial and error to find a quiet spot for my SUT.  
Good advice @erik_squires 

For this audio-dilletante, your setup makes sense. 

Thank you for sharing it. 
How do you keep your wife out of the house? Actually I must lead a bless life. I don't have any noise problems. Quiet as a mouse. 
‘Miller’ time is so annoying...
Great OP Erik.
Thank you.

A while ago I did indeed move all of my lesser powered goodies like internet switch, Wal warts for head amp etc to a simple powerstrip that is plugged into a regular duplex that is seperate from the main audio feed line.

Works for me.
Is there room for improvement?
I am sure there is and sometimes you just don't know what noise you actually had until you remove it!

Always someone will say they don't have a noise problem, I never thought I did.
Until I worked on it.
Post removed 
Post removed 
Miller
That is low even for you....

Maybe I should post all the PM,s I have about YOU...….

But that would be stooping to your level and that I draw the line at.

Take care now.

Did the author of that “PM” happen to go by one or all of the following names: John Miller, John Baron or David  Dennison?
Quote from Miller Carbon, ‘Got a PM just now, so good I have to share it in its entirety:

Miller, nice system BTW. Stop the posting on this Erik Squires dude. He is a joke and it seems he just keeps posting threads about nothing. Don’t waste your time anymore. I have stopped myself from posting on his threads. He knows absolutely nothing. AND he has people who follow him, one guy I met. You cannot win this battle. To many nobodies who know nothing about audio systems support the guy.

Anyway all the best to you.

Factual, tight, well-reasoned, compelling.

Bye!’

Dude, that is below the belt. FWIW.. i admire your devotion and you are super knowledgable no doubt. Much respect. But in the famous words of Rodnay ‘Can’t we all just get along?’
I am nothing without my fans.

Peace,

Erik
90$ from Amazon if you can wait a day or so longer.. ;)  I'll wait to snag one, my current locale would make applying it an issue (long story...)

(Eric’s fans help him keep his cool....*G*)

Back atcha’...👍
Yeah, no, it doesn’t work like that. Not even close.

First, because there is no "zone". Look at my system for example. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 Where is the "clean power zone"? Can you show me? Is it after the power conditioner? Or is it after the step down transformer? Maybe its after the breaker panel? No? Maybe its the electric meter? Because I have tracked the thing back to the point of using tweaks on the meter box and it works just as well there as everywhere else along the entire power path from that point on. Which is to say all of it. So where exactly is this imaginary zone then?

Second way its nothing like you say, I can disconnect or turn off breakers going to other rooms and hear an improvement. I can put contact enhancers and outlet plugs on stuff in another room clear across the house and still hear the same improvement as when they are used right in the room or even on unused outlets right on my conditioner. So that ones bunk too.

And finally, no wall warts after the conditioner? Have you looked at my system? Have you looked at ANY SYSTEM?! We're gonna get real basic now. Because what is a wall wart, anyway? Did you ever stop to ask yourself that question? A wall wart is nothing but a very simple power supply. Its a transformer, couple diodes, maybe a cap or two. That’s it.

Now please do not take my word for it. Open one up and have a look for yourself. Then do the same with ANY component in your system. Because if you look at ANY COMPONENT in ANY SYSTEM you will find EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has a transformer, diodes, and caps.

Still, in fairness, don’t only knock, also be positive. Point out the stuff the guy got right. DMZ is indeed short for de-militarized zone. Well done.
Yeah, actually it can work like that.

Not long ago I had the exact problem Eric was referencing, with a streaming device's wall-wart smps causing noise that bled into my phono preamp. Some wall warts (the heavy ones) are indeed just a linear PS in a plastic case, others are SMPS and usually the culprit of circuit pollution. 


This makes me think of the guy who commented here, after seeing my set-up, that I had too much cluttered together.  I took that as meaning the clutter was visually unsettling, but having read Erik’s comment, I’m thinking now that he might have been referring to noise being generated by the proximity of several pieces of electronic equipment (though I guess he might also have been referring to reflections?).  

I have two Furman’s below on that same table, each plugged into the same wall outlet.  One has all 8 outlets (4 are filtered and 4 unfiltered) with all 8 having something plugged into it; the other has 2 devices plugged into its 6 outlets (so far).  I hadn’t even thought if this whole arrangement I have might be introducing noise — but I’m not sure what I do about it if it is (that being the only nearby outlet).  Interesting topic.

bob540
This makes me think of the guy who commented here, after seeing my set-up, that I had too much cluttered together. I took that as meaning the clutter was visually unsettling, but having read Erik’s comment, I’m thinking now that he might have been referring to noise being generated by the proximity of several pieces of electronic equipment (though I guess he might also have been referring to reflections?).

>>>>>There is a third and more mysterious reason, gentle readers, why clutter is bad for the sound. I don’t wish to appear messianic or overly mysterious but think of it like Feng Shui. Having an organized and uncluttered space is good for everything, you can also think of it as minimizing entropy. Especially bad for sound - and I’d don’t mean to be ironic here - are CDs, magazines, books, newspapers, LPs, videos, and extra unused electronics and cables you might have lying around. Even musical instruments. How’s that for irony?
Geoff, I see you've stopped dying your hair. Or did you start dying your hair?
Either way, much like your posts, tres avant garde......
It’s a Sonny Bono wig. 
Wow, I guess you could say that my whole life is cluttered (I blame my mother, who always told me, “Save everything.  You never know when it will come in handy!” . . . . “Yes, Mother”.   It was my father who showed me that saving too much, such that nothing can be located and put back, can be as bad as never saving anything.

Fortunately, I am not as bad as Mother was (after she passed and we went through her belongings, we found a utility bill from 1949!), but I am indeed bitten.  I even save old buttons, in hopes that one day I will find the missing shirts or compatible ones.   I have tried to fight back against my thoughts that, “Just when I throw this away, I will find out what it goes to and will kick myself.”  And, every once in a while, I do find out what the thing belonged to and restore it to its rightful location, and for that moment everything feels right with the world.
We have Feng Shui consultants standing by the phones. 
Post removed 
Miller
You should have stayed in your ’end of the world’ bunker, counting your cans of beans and bottles of Purell with all your friends instead of once again displaying that sparkling personality.
I’m guessing you built a one man shelter......

Well this is going well!
🤔🤔
You should have seen what he wrote before the mods deleted it....
Totally abrasive and clueless.
A wall wart is nothing but a very simple power supply. Its a transformer, couple diodes, maybe a cap or two. That’s it.
That makes as much sense as saying "all amplifiers sound the same"

For $75 to $100 or so, one can get a PC based scope and have a bloody look!!! No guessing. No noise? No problem.

BTW, the concept of following is anathema to me. If I could, I'd block millercarbon permanently. Nothing he writes is worth the bits to transmit.

But he knows better than everyone about everything!
Just ask him or that tiny personal PM fan club he uses as vindication of his beliefs.
A popularity contest this is not.
But we still have a winner.
@thecarpathian  

I’m guessing you built a one man shelter......

I wonder if it also has bright red carpet?
E and helomech are quite correct in appending SMPS to Wall wart. Get them on a different leg of your panel IF possible. You can try this w long extension cord and as E says an inexpensive PC

the Point about mostly analog devices being self polluted is quite accurate- ARC and Aesthetix both recognized this and make the display defeatable - quite audible.

finally to help answer Miller’s question about where the clean/ dirty line is - anybody who puts a resonant tonearm in a corner on purpose has no clean line...
While nobody has a monopoly on truth , the petty attack on Erik is really uncalled for.
While nobody has a monopoly on truth


I demand a full retraction!! ;-)
Geoff - suggest you cut a dragon hole... no F-S listening room is complete without one...

remember the Dragon must be able to fly downslope unimpeded to water...

put $$$$ where mouth is as the developers in the know do in Hong Kong

E: any 2nd order or higher filter assures a full retraction...
Look what you all doing to miller...it’s only noon and he’s not even reached his average daily quota of 20 posts 😃

https://www.memeatlas.com/images/wojaks/wojak-soy-soi-boi.gif

Before I knew Feng Shui Bagua mirrors were supposed to face outdoors I was only warding off myself.
Nothing wrong with Feng Shui, but really, you guys have to check out Marie Kondo, the hoarder whisperer.
Apparently my wife thinks feng shui is Chinese for
"Stuff all your husband’s crap in the garage..."
Man, when I lived in San Francisco I sold all my gear in bulk.

Sumo pre/amp, Tandberg pre/amp, Theta Casanova.

In a 1 bedroom, that was waaaay too much stuff.  Not to mention the speakers I was accumulating.

There are children in Azerbaijan whose souls are dying due to lack of Jazz music and here I was hoarding.
Which Tandberg? The 3K series hyper neutral and quiet....

I would put those in my garage or vintage system in a heartbeat 
@tomic601

Might have been. Honestly the amp though did not hold up. The 2 Parasound A21s I had were a lot better.

That's the other thing, as much as I got rid of, I still had an Oppo BD player, 2 Parasound A21s and a plethora of Class D amps, Focal profiles, and was making my own, and a pair of Monitor Audio profile speakers.
Actually, I heard Azerbaijan was a hotbed of jazz!
They recently held the annual Baku Jazz Jamboree. They even had a Miles Davis lookalike contest.....
Or was it a turnip festival.......
I get those two confused.
@three_easy_payments,
I'm certain he at least has a strip of red carpet.
Leading to a wicker 'throne' and a Burger King hat...
I thought it was one of those red baseball hats.
You know, that way the curtains match the carpet.
Actually, I heard Azerbaijan was a hotbed of jazz!
They recently held the annual Baku Jazz Jamboree.


That completely assuages my guilt!
Oh cmon now guys
Being a little hard on Miller arent we, I mean what has he done to deserve this?

Oh wait, hold on, its coming to me.
Thats right... everything!

Carry on old chaps!