Just retired and want to get back to vinyl listening

 I want to echo what Reubent said about your room. You want to look at your room just like a component. You can put a $20K system in a badly set up room and it will sound awfull. You can take a $5K system and put it in a properly set up room and it will sound like a dream. Do some reading about room set up. Also, u want a high current amp, not to play at high volumes necessarily, but to be able to reproduce your sound, without clipping. An overdriven amp will make your music sound harsh. Also invest in a good cartridge. After all, that's where the music starts. If u don't have a good front end, it won't much matter what components u use after that. You can buy good used equipment on this sight, as well as others, after u find what u want. Look for someone that has a high satisfaction score. Good luck. 

Please make sure u budget for a good record cleaning machine. A must for "getting into vinyl".

Congratulation!   I too got back into higher end gear and vinyl a few years ago.  I've had a number of integrated amps (luxman, accuphase, Hegel, pass, Plinius, and now vitus).  I too like the "retro look".  My luxman integrated from the early 80's is the only gear I have from back then.   I say if you like luxman,stick with luxman (although I would say that Hegel and Plinius are the best "band for the buck" gear on the used market, but neither are close to retro).  For the TT, I've had two VPI (a classic and a scout) but I never really liked the feel of a unipivot arm (and my wife hatted them - which also raises a topic no body else has raised, that being if you are attached, appeasing her sensibilities goes a long way for musical bliss).  I have two clearaudio tables and a linn sondek.   Linn has the retro look.  Pro-Ject has a new table with a retro look as well.  Luxman has a table too, but it's not cheap.   For a cartridge, I've had Shelters (7000 and 9000), Air tights (pc 1 and pc 3), micro benz, Lyras (titan and kilos), and sumiko (blackbird).  Ortofon is always a good bet.   One thing I mention that is rarely brought up is cartridges where they stylus extends past the body of the cartridge versus those there the stylus hangs below it .   The former are more exposed to damage.  

Even though i am an advocate of brick and mortar stores, if you do buy mail order, keep in mind that if you buy multiple components, some will discount but you have to call them and talk to them.  I've always had good luck with music direct in Chicago.  

Congrats on getting back to vinyl! I second the thoughts regarding defining the room first, then speakers, then amplification and finally source components. I sold Klipsch back in the '80's, and in my recollection horns need tubes. If you want value for money, have the space for a large speaker and are willing to venture from the mainstream check out Dennis Murphy's Phil 3:

http://philharmonicaudio.com/phil3.html

i heard these in his D.C. Home driven by a little audio note amp and they are astonishingly good, especially at $3,500 in a standard finish. You can get about any veneer or finish you can imagine on cabinets built by Jim Salk.  He offers a 2-week home trial, though you have to pay shipping. 

Thanks again..

I have my old reference from late 70's into Mid 80's of my modest setup of my Genesis then Hersey speakers attached to my retro with meter sliver front Yamaha receiver and Technics TT as a graduate and veterinary student........had an lower end Nakamichi cassette deck to make music for the car/truck from my albums......it is a good old memory --

so much to relearn and listen too now... with more discretionary money 

will have much more time to actually spend listen to the setup

steventoney, I thought I’d offer my two cents. I own the Luxman L-590 AX. There is one version newer, the L-590 AXII. The version prior to mine was the L-590 AII, which had a flip-down panel covering the lower controls. I bought my amp here earlier this year. It’s some of the very best money I’ve spent. I want to throw this out, because it seems to be some sort of a secret. While the 590 is called Class A, and the published output is 30w/channel, it actually puts out right at 90w/channel, (presumably switching to A/B). I bought mine without having ever heard one, and it was a leap of faith. I briefly considered the smaller L-550, but decided to go with their top integrated, and am glad I did. There are reviews out there, but you need to search hard. The new listing here on Audiogon is exactly like mine, condition included. I paid $900 less than that, shipped, which seems to be about the going rate for a very nice example.
L.

You mentioned vintage look and  having Yamaha in the past.  Have a look at the current Yamaha integrateds.  The A-S2100 and the next up A-S3000 are on sale at MusicDirect.     

I reiterate what rstheno had to say. VPI Prime. Soundsmith Zephyr mimc.

Rogue audio cronus magnum ii with the kt120..

That leaves over 10k for speakers. I have a long history with Klipsch but I would go for sonus faber Olympica 3 or vandersteen 5a used or audiophysic Avanti  (new series)

The listed 590 ax Luxman is tempting, but I must be patient and get moved first.................

I hope to listen to that specific set sonus faber speakers and the vandersteen quarto wood ct -- devore gibbon x and the box types devore 0/96 -- maybe even the harbeth box 40.2 -- the vandersteen 5A is outside my budget for this first setup.. Also it brings on another separate discussion on speakers with built bass amps - version passive bass stages in the speakers I have been mostly looking at.   I may stretch speakers to around 12-14Kish, but was hoping for 5-10K as the overall budget was 20ish -- we will see -- I may start in the 15-20 K range for all the sundries and the update as I learn and experiment

starting point is modest memory replicant -- TT - I-amp - speakers with a retro feel and experiment from there

thanks for all the input -- I will get down and serious on buying after I get moved and have a new place..

Are you people saying that this Luxman would overall be better than Pass INT-60, phono aside ? I am not familiar with Luxman.
Another theoretical possibility is JM Focal Utopia. It will require tube amplification and well matched cables or it will sound bright.
Something like this or higher:
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/monitors-jm-labs-utopia-alto-be-2017-09-06-speakers

Rogue and Yamaha won't do - the man is aiming at higher performance level.

The Pass integrated is like the accuphase E-600/E-470 in that it seems it would need a phone stage bought separately... all considerations -- all good integrateds

The Accuphase units only need a phono card that is inserted into the back of the amp.   I think the Pass would need a stand alone phono stage.

yes -- card or standalone - would be additional purchase with accuphase -- could go either -- there is also the consider of the 2 slots and the DAC card for some inputs -- but I'm mostly focused here on getting back to vinyl listening.. both luxman and accuphase -- have the "look" I'm after for the retro -- like my old yamaha receiver --  Yamaha and most like brands are not the same today as what I had in the 70's - 80's  --

pretty much decided it will be a class a to a/b integrated typical of the luxman accuphase type styles -- but still open to other suggestions

This is a long shot because they are probably too expensive but take a look at Classic Audio speakers. They should do well, I suppose, with Luxman/Accuphase class A amps. I don't know where to audition them, though.

builder3, did you buy your Luxman from mountainsong?   If so, that was originally my amp!!

I dug this up, steventoney.
http://www.navratilaudio.cz/novinky/Luxman_L590AXII_HFW.pdf

There are actually three 590's currently listed, which is very unusual. Two of them are the L-590A MkII's which are two versions back from the current model, and one is the L 590AX, (which I own), which was superceded by the L 590AXII about 1½ years ago.

Greginnh, I did, that's pretty cool. I'm blown away by the thing. I've heard both fans and detractors, but I'm running a pair of Paradigm Signature S6's, and I couldn't be happier. I can only assume that the people that bash these speakers haven't driven them with anything good enough to see what they can do. A new turntable is probably on the horizon.
L.

BTW, you and mountainsong both took great care of that amp. It looked new when I unboxed it.

I am a big Luxman fan having owned many pieces since the 70's (yes, I am an old fart). I'm currently running an Accuphase E-600 and I may be selling it to go back to the Luxman MQ-300 tube amp.  The L-590AX or AXII are hands down, the best value in terms of Class A integrated amps. Also, with the new North American distributor, there is a $1,000 price drop.  

Whats not to love!!!

If like the integrated, you will be smitten by the Luxman turntable!  

I'm glad you are enjoying my old amp!

I'm certainly enjoying it. Two things stand out, to me. First, the absolute clarity. Details in familiar pieces that I had never heard previously. And the control. Stunning.
I've looked at that turntable, but it's out of my price range, sadly. As is the CD player. But I still look....
Take care,

It appears that no-one directly compared Luxman, Accuphase and Pass. Until that's done I don't see how one can choose. This would be a guess that might not turn out to be a lucky one. External phono stage that would almost certainly outperform both Luxman's and Accuphase's phono modules would not be too expensive even new, probably around $2k. Sutherland 20/20 comes to mind first.
Personally, when choosing a brand I try to get the feel of the designer before any other considerations. Pass and Rasmussen of Gryphon sound good to me. Dimitros of Ypsilon too but that's out of the range.

I’m going to make a few radical observations that are borne out of the many threads of this type on this forum and others:
First, the equipment suggestions are invariably a reflection of how the person making the recommendations would spend your money, allocate budget, prioritize one component over another and what that person might want out of a system. I wouldn’t dare argue with anyone’s choice. But, what do YOU want? The only way to know is to listen. That means seat time at a dealer or four (don’t know what your locale has to offer); friends or colleagues that can let you hear their systems; travel to other places to hear systems, etc.
Second, the amp and speaker have a symbiotic relationship and are often chosen together. That isn’t to say you can’t buy an all purpose amp or speaker, but the two are interconnected in ways that go beyond the literal; and from that, the type of amp (tube/solid state), power and to some degree, price and budget allocation are intertwined.
Used is good if from a reputable source, particularly someone who is a dealer who will stand behind the product along with the manufacturer-not someone who is blowing the product line out because they lost the franchise or switched to another brand to feature;
A good dealer should be a quiet guide to let you make choices, not someone pitching you. There are some good dealers but no one of them will carry all the brands you might consider. It is possible to put together a very good system from more than one dealer.
Shopping dealers to go out to buy from individual sellers is an ethical sore point- while I’ve had some bad experiences with dealers over the years, a good dealer should be treasured- for help, tech support, trade-ins, and price breaks.
Two final observations; one about gear and one about "vinyl."
Gear: I have two systems. One is ’high end’ vinyl only system; the other is a vintage system (based on old Quad ESLs and matching amps). I get as much joy from one as the other. This isn’t about the money, it’s about putting together a "system" that works together synergistically and draws on the strengths of the gear to present music in a way that you as the owner like.
Records: vinyl is a b-----. I say this as someone as dedicated to the medium as anyone. Unless you are planning on buying new audiophile reissues of classic warhorses, you are going to wind up in a world cluttered with shitty pressings and/or used records, where the grade "very good" means precisely the opposite. Not trying to discourage you- record hunting is fun particularly if your taste isn’t limited to the latest "audiophile" picks, but it’s a whole other world of things to know and learn: preferred pressings of older records; sources to acquire stuff beyond the usual, trusted sellers that won’t charge you top dollar for a valued copy.
The primary point of my missive is that you have to educate yourself, no matter how well meaning others’ advice is. And that means seat time, listening to some different kinds of speakers, amps, etc. I could go on, but I think it is unnecessary. (PS: I can appreciate a friend’s system that is entirely different from my "big" system, and really enjoy it. It is just different, but well chosen, thoughtfully put together to achieve a certain objective for that owner).
After all, you are the one paying for it and listening to it. Choose wisely based on experience you should gain before you spend.
And congrats on retirement.
bill hart

Bill,
As always, good post, encouraging even inspirational but with a warning.
As for the best pressings, I think some of us could help here.
Yeah, taking dealers' time with little possibility of buying from them doesn't feel good. However, how else to try and compare many brands? Say, I would like to compare Lamm and Ypsilon or Gryphon and FM Acoustics. Virtually zero chance to do it at one dealer.

Very few people take Eminent Technology LFT-8b speakers as seriously as they do Maggies, for a reason of which I am unaware (I own both, as well as QUAD ESL’s). Harry Weisfeld of VPI, from a recent blog posting: "The ET LFT-8b may have the best midrange of any loudspeaker I have ever heard". A ridiculous bargain at $2499 retail.

He probably have not heard many or his hearing is bizarre at best or he is grossly exaggerating. No wonder I never considered VPI. This is BS.

As I approach retirement age I can tell you my ears have changed. The audio industry has changed too. Today, SOUND is part of the video market and downloading allows music to survive.
.
Today’s sound IS accurate, but lacking the pleasant emotion that was built in to those 70/80’s systems of the past. I find that especially true of Klipsch. That sterile like sound is also drives the price of vintage equipment.
.
Listen Well

greg -- what are your direct usage and "hearing" thoughts on the luxman 590 and the accuphase e-600

thanks

bill - I get what you are saying -- I think I'm ready to get back to vinyl and explore

all -- I’m starting my education and asking and listening as noted in first post

thanks for the input -- some things suggest while interesting and I do go read on all suggestions are out of what I have budget for at least my first start setup

Hi Steve -  First of all, I have a MAJOR problem that causes me to analyze the performance of my gear.  Over the last year, I have switched amps 5 times and speakers 3 times (not to mention DACs, SACD players, speaker cables and interconnects. Since "ugradeitis" is normally in play, I always find a way to justify these frivolous expenditures - and I have a very understanding wife!  Even now, I am tempted with replacing my Accuphase E-600 with the $21,000 Luxman MQ-300 tube amp. 

During my quest, I have auditioned or owned Arcam, PrimaLuna, Luxman, Gato, Esoteric, Pass, Plinius and Accuphase integrated amps.  I still own Gato AMP-150 and PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium Integrated amps.

Without going into the reasons and circumstances for each purchase, I will tell you that my biggest regret was not leaving well enough alone and keeping my Luxman L-590AX and D-06U SACD player/DAC.  Several amps and $$$$ later, I have incrementally gone up the sonic "food chain" but not by orders of magnitude.  If I had to do it again, it would be the Luxman L-590AX II and I would call it a day.


Other than the value proposition the Luxman has over the Accuphase, here are my thoughts on the differences:

Overall realism and purity of sound:   Probably a tie.
Bass Authority: Accuphase
Soundstage: Luxman
Warmth: Slight edge to Luxman (more "tube-like sound)
Detail: Slight edge to Accuphase

It is important to note that synergy of components, interconnects and even power cords will have an impact on performance as well as room acoustics.  As others have mentioned, TAKE YOUR TIME and enjoy the process.  Work with a couple of reputable local dealers and always try to audition the gear at your home.  

The most important thing to remember is that NOTHING that anyone tells you on this forum is gospel.  What appeals to your ears is the only thing that matters. Having said that, everything sounds great until you hear something better so make sure you can establish the point of diminishing returns (something I obviously cannot do!)  The good news is that you are considering some really good gear and your budget will allow to assemble a first-class system!
 

co93

One thing I mention that is rarely brought up is cartridges where they stylus extends past the body of the cartridge versus those there the stylus hangs below it .   The former are more exposed to damage.

 How can a cartridge trace a groove if the stylus doesn't extend below it?

greginnh, I appreciate hearing your thoughts. As far as gear, I've been the opposite of you, probably due to financial concerns more than anything, so I always am conscious of my huge lack of experience here. I think when mountainsong sold the amp to me, it was also to fund higher end Luxman separates.
L.

@greginnh - I think you make a point--"everything sounds great until you hear something better" that is worth underscoring, whatever the budget.  If someone hasn't been around the audio scene in a while, they may not appreciate how far we have come in a number of areas (though I'm a big advocate of vintage stuff too).  That can help establish a benchmark for what a good system is capable of reproducing. Granted, our sonic "memories" are short, but there is value in hearing what a top system is able to do and why it is regarded as such. I would think a reputable dealer, if approached honestly about this (with an appointment arranged in advance) ought to be willing to let a prospective buyer at X budget hear what that dealer's "top system" is capable of, if only to show that the dealer is able to assemble a system at lesser cost which has some of the virtues the buyer prizes--
@inna - the inability to compare all prospective brands at one shop is a real concern that I mentioned in my post. At the level of the gear you are talking about--very expensive stuff- I would ask dealer A to work with dealer B to allow a comparison within one of their shops. Not sure if this would work-- home trial is best, of course, but apart from specialty dealers selling top dollar stuff and places like Music Direct that offer a no questions asked return policy, that may be the only way, apart from having a friend or colleague drag their own piece of equipment over. 
I know I'm pushing the 'use a dealer' theme, but that's where they pay off- I had one dealer back East who had no problem bringing pieces to my home (sometimes, with the manufacturer) for home trial. And, I didn't always cut a check. 
The limited opportunity to make real comparisons is not confined to new or returning to the fold audiophiles-- we all suffer from it to a degree--which, I think, explains some of the turnover in gear. 
A friend with a killer system and a few connections also isn't a bad thing to have. I know a couple of different hot beds of enthusiasts in different parts of the country who are constantly trying out new and different stuff. One can benefit from their reach and participate in the listening sessions if the opportunity presents itself. 

@greginnh & @whart

I wholeheartedly echo your last post’s ~ been there done that.  

You're not alone with this 'MAJOR'problem. Many of us always looking for ways to push the performance of your existing gear. It's a uncurable disease :-)

I wouldn't mind paying for audition of what I want to audition, either in-home or not. Dealers are not mules, why should they work for free? When you consult with other professionals you always pay, I see no reason why it should be different in high-end audio field. The fees must be reasonable and refundable if you buy, that's for sure. This situation would improve dealer-customer relations and decrease the probability of buing wrong equipment.
Two dealers cooperating to let you compare is a great idea even if it doesn't sound very realistic for most cases.

I've never had a dealer ask for money for an in-home audition.  A credit card on file to cover potential damage - sometimes.  But thats it. 

Doubtful if the two dealers cooperating would ever work  IMO. 

Well the answer is simple and it doesn't depend on anyones opinions but yours. Simple. Go to the RMAF beginning Oct 5th. My spend your time visiting rooms with affordable ( for you ) gear. If you have time come visit me in the Bricasti room. 

This is a solid recommendation. It'll help you understand where the current state of the art in your price range is. And remember not only what speakers you like, but what the supporting gear was. Then you can at least to attempt that in your own room. Good luck and happy retirement.

No, don't go to RMAF - you may like too much what you cannot and never will be able to afford.
I still suggest choosing speakers first after visiting dealers. It appears that the OP wants to recreate vintage system at a much higher level, this both simplifies and complicates things.

I had a similar situation as you - check out the Tannoy Prestige Line, they are efficient and can be placed close to a wall - I went from Klipsch Chorus (Cornwall successor) to Tannoy Turnberry and really fell in love with the Tannoys.  I also bring it up because I had mine paired with the Luxman AX-550 also and it is a great match.  Very coincidentally there is a pair of Turberry's right now for sale up in WA (I do not know the seller) where you are moving. 

"No, don’t go to RMAF - you may like too much what you cannot and never will be able to afford"

@inna ~ Someone who’s out of the game for a good while and you advise them to stay away from attending the largest consumer audio and home entertainment show in North America???

I have been attending the audio shows for last couple of years and they are great place to catch up on variety of current topics and latest trends in the audio industry. The electronics / speakers / cables ranging from $2500 - $100K. Where else one would find products from 400 plus companies under one roof.

I strongly recommend anyone to attend these shows before they make any sizable investment in a audio system.

My advice should be taken creatively not literally. One can go but..

He forgot to add - The best turntables in the world are VPIs -. How would it sound to you?
Anyway, I don't give a damn about what he says. And no, I have not heard those speakers, I don't listen to speakers in this price range if I can help it, only cables in this price range.

My small advice: whatever TT you purchase, get a linear tracking tonearm!
Good luck!

As JBHILLER said above, everyone has his likes and preferences, so I won't suggest this or that, other than to say I was just like you - wanting to get back into vinyl.  I have a ton of classic vinyl from back in the day but was not enjoying it with my present system.  One upgrade changed all of that.  I recently installed a VPI Prime TT, with Ortofon Black cart., Lehman Black Cube phone preamp, and well, it has all come alive again.  An amp upgrade and possibility speakers later, but this has made a huge difference.  I have since ordered several new albums - the first in many years. 

Out of the the turntables considered, the VPI will be impossible to top.  The cartridge Id partner a prime with would be an Ortofon 2m black which would be very friendly with the MM inputs on many integrateds.  Soundsmith has great moving iron carts as well. For MC a great match would be Ortofon Cadenza Red coupled with a great step up transformer.  My VPI dealer is reference analog in Oklahoma.  

I absolutely think you are on the right path with Luxman.

Another almost impossibly musical integrated is the Wells Majestic with 150 watts.....

Devialet would be a wonderful all in one choice     and so elegant.....

Klipsch cornwalls would be my very last choice.........horns are just harsh and I revere everything Paul Klipsch did but audio moved on........you can do so much better in terms of overall musicality and emotional engagement.  That level  of system deserves more......If you like that high efficiency thang tho      look at Tannoy

my choices would be:

Look at Harbeth 7es3
Look at Marten Django (unbelievably musical)

Youd need more watts (used Mcintosh Integrated?)
but Magnepan 3.7s would give you the biggest dose of real instruments
in acoustic space in a way no dynamic speaker can.....Ive owned mine for four years and Im ridiculously content     but they are big.......

Be sure to browse show videos on avshowrooms      You  might consider going to Rocky Mountain next month to hear so many combinations.....

The chase should be the enjoyable part of this hobby     so listen lots and try not to have any preconceptions about anything......let your ears be the unbiased resource......

ive had a few VPI tables......here is my latest table    my first suspended table
Oracle Delphi MK Vi 2nd gen

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BF3wnfIAsQk

If you plan to be playing vinyl, here's a tip:

A lot of ticks and pops that are often associated with LP reproduction are actually artifacts of the phono preamp. This is because if the phono circuit is unstable, it can exacerbate a tick or pop event and make it much more audible than it actually is on the LP surface. This has nothing to do with bandwidth or EQ accuracy BTW- it has to do with how stable the circuit is.

You will find also that the better phono circuits do not require cartridge loading (assuming you are using a low output cartridge) as well (but just to make things more confusing, high output cartridges like most MM cartridges require loading; I can expound on this if you like).

If the preamp does not need loading to sound right with a low output moving coil cartridge, its likely that it will also be more resistant to ticks and pops.

Finally, nearly all cartridges are a naturally balanced source, so it is possible to run balanced from the cartridge right to the preamp. This will eliminate the interconnect cable as a sonic variable, in the very best place to have such an advantage- at the input of the system.

Good Luck!

An effective cleaning regimen is also essential, particularly if you dive into used records. There are a million and one ways, different machines, methods, etc. I've had the best success combining traditional vacuum type with ultrasonic. The latter you can DIY at fairly low cost. 

$500 Okki Nokki machine with Audio Intelligent three step fluid system and three Disc Doctor brushes works just fine. The key is to soak with fluid one and two before vacuuming off regardless of how vinyl looks. I usually soak for about 10 minutes with each, sometimes twice. And the last step is double water rinse, double water. Very time consuming.

again thanks all for input.......... been away about 4 days in Shenandoah NP visit.. only 2 weeks before moving van comes.. I’m interesting learn about separate phone stages versus say the one built into the luxman 590axII -- as this was mention in the inputs -- thanks

all the record "cleaning" devices is a whole other learning area