Yes, Cornfedboy. It is definately a risk, and I would have never done something like this even a year ago. But the the Chinese products are so reasonably priced, I would not be losing out on that much if I don't like it. It's not just the guy who told me about the ultra smooth, lush, and seductive sound. It's the two reviews, one on the 88D and the other on the higher priced monos (similar house sound), and at least 4 members I can recall on on A-gon and AA who have had the same experience with the 88D. I have had very good experience with recent Chinese products from Shengya and Cayin. Unlike 10 years ago when there was no such thing as A-gon, I may have lost out on alot, but on most equipment these days you can get 70-75% or more back on mint condition electronics. Unfortunately, it's not possible to get a in-home trial or a dealer audition on many good Chinese products. |
Kck,
I'll have it early next week. Will keep you posted? From what I hear, the integrated does not run as hot as most class A because of the elaborate heat sinks inside the chassis. |
84audio,
Have you heard the 88D and DK personally in your own system? Otherwise, I don't think you could say which is better. The guy I'm buying from has heard both in the same system and recommends the Jungson. I have no reason to believe he's being dishonest. I have heard the DK with NOS Mullard tubes driving the VS VR4jr at the 2005 NY HE Show and was extremely impressed with the sound. Many seem to think the stock tubes are unimpressive. I for one do not want to spend another $200 for NOS tubes on top of $3000 for the DK when there is a comparable integrated for nearly half the price. May be I'll get burned but that's a risk I'm willing to take. |
Hi Dan, actually both the standard and LE versions have 240,000 mF of capacitance. His website lists the capacitance for the standard 88D which is for the Chinese market. All US version of the 88D have more capacitance. |
84audio, sorry I was not trying to come down on you. If you have heard both in the same system, I believe in your opinion. The dealer I bought it from sells both the DK and Jungson. He would have made more money if he sold me the DK, but he really preferred the Jungson. He said he has had customers sell their DK for Jungson and vice versa. So in the end, it's really a matter of preference.
Like I said, I have heard the DK with the NOS Mullard and really enjoyed the sound. Dynamics, staging, and imaging were incredible. But I did hear what I can only describe as "tube resonance" or kind of a scratchy sound in the upper midrange or grainy quality that begin to tire me after awhile. I've heard this from some other lower end tube equipment also. For some reason, I'm very sensitive to this. The higher end tube equipment like the AR, Atmosphere, McIntosh, and the like do not have this quality - they're velvity smooth. It's hard to describe, but I can't live with it in the long run.
The best sounding amps I ever heard were both SS, a modified Threshold SA-3 class A amp and the big YBA mono blocks. Both were grain free and just transparent as hell. May be your right, I may end up preferring the Jungson if it is smooth and luscious as some describe it to be.
Thanks for your input 84audio. |
Maxxc, here's the review of the JA-100 monoblocks:
http://jungson.com/content/product_pages/reviews/JA2-100%20AUS%20hi%20fi%20review.pdf
Good to hear from you. |
Hi Maxx, I sold my Cayin and Shengya CDP. Although I enjoyed the openness of the Cayin, I wanted more extension and dynamics. The other problem was tube noise especially with a tube Shengya CDP I had. The soundstage collapsed and sound became harsh on loud classical passages. You can only ask so much from a 30 watt integrated. I also ordered the Marantz SA-11 SACD player, both the amp and player should arrive around the same time. I think I'll get all the things you mentioned and more, if there is synergy between the Jungson and Marantz. I will write a review of both units once everything has broken in. I could never afford this level of sound if it weren't for the new wave of excellent Chinese gear. |
I'll try to email u thru AA. |
Hey Maxx, did you have both the LE and standard 88D for direct comparison when you looked inside? I would think it would be almost imposssible to tell the difference in the caps and resistors comparing the LE with published pics of the standard 88D. It does make sense about the virtually no additional profit with the LE, but being a Chinese unit I wouldn't surprised if they were able to squeeze in some better caps and resistors. I would be surprised if the Chinese rep was misleading the dealer about the LE. May be there was a misunderstanding due to communication difficulty. |
Dan, according to the dealer I got my 88D LE from, there's supposed to be better caps and resistors in addition to the cosmetics, connectors, and better binding posts. But when I asked the guy exactly what the upgraded caps and resistors were, he didn't know. According to him, communication with the Chinese Jungson reps is difficult - kinda like trying to decipher the Jungson user's manual with their quircky English expressions I suppose. If anyone has seen the inside of a standard 88D and the LE, please let us know the difference. |
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Maxx, Tuesday is the day! |
Just received my new Jungson 88D LE-it's a beast. Still in it's massive box. I'm too tired to open it at this time. Tomorrow morning I'll have a look. Can't do much anyway as I still have not received my Marantz SA11 player. |
Well, I have been listening to the 88Ds for two days now. The previous posts about the 88Ds being "lush" is correct. This is the smoothest SS amp I have ever heard. I keep on thinking I'm listening to tubes. So far, it has about 20 hrs of break in time. I'm hearing some fog to the sound, eg the sound isn't as clear and open as I'm used to. I'm attributing this to lack of break in at this point.
Also, this could be due to my new, but temporary, Sony CE595 SACD player I just bought. Both have the same amount of break in time.
Maxx, did you hear this when you first got the amp? How long before this cleared up? Thanks. |
Thanks Maxx. Your input is always helpful. I will be emailing you regarding a private matter. |
Maxx, email was sent yersterday. Did u get it? |
Could you email me first? Then I can reply. Thanks. |
My new Jungson has developed problems. The left channel started to intermittently go out and produce crackling noise. The power meter went out, and there's hum from the amp and speakers. It was starting to sound so smooth, holographic, and clear. My dealer thinks it was dropped during shipping. I'm going to get a replacement but I will have to wait until end of June. Just goes to show ya, you really need a good dealer behind products from China. If my dealer did not stand by his product, I would be screwed.
Sorry Kocska. I'm not sure if I could help you since I have limited experience. I use Crystal Clear silver cables from PKMaudio.com. With these, it sounds very open and clear. The bass was not as dynamic as I would like but the amp only had 30 hrs of break in time. What kind of speakers and source do you have? A ultra smooth and lush amp like the Jungson may not mate well with speakers that are warm and do not have good control in the bass. I could see how the Nordost, a fast/lean sounding cable, may do well with the Jungson. |
Well, I'm not hearing what Agisthos is hearing. I agree it is lush and smooth, but not slow by any means. It's more dynamic than any tube amp I have heard under 200 watts (VTLs, AR, Atmosphere, etc). For example, I was floored by the dynamics in the SACD version of Pink Floyds Dark Side of the Moon. Literally shook the walls on certain passages in my set up. Every tube amp that I have heard is very midrangey compared to SS. The Jungson has a more balanced perspective with rest of the freq range. It's lush and smooth but not bloomy in the midrange like a SET. I liken it to a top non-oversampling DACs (eg, Audio Note, Zanden) with their natural presentation. Many SS amps tend to artificialy heighten the sense of dynamics with artificial detail, and if this is what your looking for then look else where. Or retrain your ear to hear what live music sounds like by going to a nice hall (eg, Boston Symphony Hall) playing unamplified acoustic music. You'll find the Jungson to be a close approximation to the real thing. This I know from 30 hours of listening to the Jungsons. |
Sorry, my last remark was directed more to Koczka123. |
Kck, the only way you'll know is to try it out. I, for one, do not spend more than 300-350 for a pair of ICs or speaker cables. As for power cords, I have the Signal Cable Magic Power Cord ($60, I think) and their Magic Power Digital Cord ($70, I think). At least in my experience, the power cords did make a significant difference over the stock cords - definately worth the minimal investment (by audiophile standard). My friends think I'm crazy buying a $60 power cord. It's all relative. Would I ever buy a $5000 cable, IC, or cord? No. At those prices, I think it's mostly snake oil. I rather buy a better pair of speakers, amp, or CDP. |
Agisthos, the Jungsons are not slow in the bass at least compared to live music. It doesn't throw bass at you like many SS amps. The bass is naturally integrated with rest of the spectrum.
Kck, for the money, it's hard to beat the Signal Cable power cords. I don't think I could ever spend over $1k on cables. My total investment is little over $600 and I'm quiet happy with the results. |
I agree with Maxx. It's one of the more cooler running class A amps. Nothing like the Krell integrated on which you can fry an egg. My room is 15'x12'x8' and it doesn't warm up the room like my last 30 watt tube integrated. Basically it warms up a room like a coventional 30" TV. If you look inside the amp, there's an elaborate array of copper heat sinks that helps to cool the amp efficiently. |
Speedball, another consideration is the noise floor of the amp. Although the Jungson is dead quiet hooked to my speaker with 90 dB efficiency, it may not be hooked up to a speaker with 102 dB. The BFS reviewer states, although the Jungson is quiet for a SS amp, it is not the quietest the reviewer has heard. So you may have to use the balanced connection on the Jungson to gain that extra 3-5 dB reduced noise floor. Or go for another amp more suited for your speakers, but I doubt you can get a SET amp of high quality anywhere near the price of the Jungson. I think you can get the stereo amp version of the 88D for under 1K which is really an absolute bargain. But this is all conjecture as I have not heard the Jungson through a speaker that efficient. Good luck. |
In general, class A amps will sound smoother, more refined, more natural than their class AB counterparts. I would advise against getting a class AB amp for highly efficient horn speakers, unless it has been shown to mate well with horns. |
