bigkidz....i won't lie and say i've heard the joseph audio speakers but i own p-10s and i don't care how good the ja's are i doubt they can compete with the piegas'.i may be wrong.at my suggestion,a couple of audiogoners have switched to the p-10s,used,in the past month and swear they may never buy another speaker again.they are that good.in your price range i don't think there is a better speaker.the ribbon/bass drivers seamlessly integrate and give a sound few can compete with.a gentleman who just received his used p-10s said,in an email to me,that 'they have unbelievable mids and highs and this may be an end to my speaker obsession.'he also said they 'sound nothing short of phenominal.' i don't think you can go wrong with the p-10s.good luck
If you like electrostatic speakers, the SoundLab M3 is under $8k new. It is a non-hybrid fullrange electrostatic speaker with response down to 30Hz. SoundLabs are consistently mentioned as one of the finest, if not the finest, electrostatic speaker that money can buy.
Just a thought.
The Joseph speakers are very good. That being said, they were very smart and actively campaigned for the votes they received at last year's HES in NY.
The P10's are an absolute steal for the prices they are going for on A'gon. I have a pair listed for a customer who is moving up and I am shocked that they are not bringing a lot more.
Are you looking for a used speaker in the 8k range or a new 8k speaker?
Agree with Jtinn about Joseph campaigning for votes at shows. I visited their room at the last 2 STereophile shows in NYC. After the demo was over, they handed out voting cards and pencils and asked people to vote for them. I dont see anything inherently wrong with lobbying for votes, but since they were the only room I was in that did this, I think that gives them at an unfair advantage............
As far as their speakers, they are good but I find them a little on the dry side. Also, the 33's bass was a little disjointed from the rest of the spectrum, but I understand an upgrade hase come out to alleviate this.
If you are looking for speakers in the 8k range, do yourself a favor and listen to the Alon Lotus Elite Signatures. They are one of my favorites at ANY price.
Bigkidz, you want detail? Check Red Rose Classic.
We are very proud of our achievements at the HE shows, having made the "Best Sound At Show" list at every show where votes were tallied, and having captured #1 Best Sound At Show for the last two years. The RM33si won this award even though we were in a small room, with only 9 seats. The line to hear them stretched down the 10th floor hallway. Never before has a $7499/ pair speaker won this award, beating out speakers as much as $120,000 per pair! The fact that we beat out the mega-systems displayed in rooms that could seat up to 50 people at a time is pretty amazing. We did spring for a larger room at HE2002, and
hoped that the lines would be shorter, but once word got out about the Pearls, people were once again waiting in line to give them a listen, and ultimately voted the Pearls as "Best Sound At Show".
As for Dolpin's claim of "handing out voting cards and pencils" at the HE shows - here's what actually happened. Around 6pm Saturday at HE2001, I discovered that a number of people in our room did not have ballots, so I sent one of our people down to the lobby to get some in case some people still needed one. I did ask if people had ballots on Sunday, but we did not even think to ask until Saturday night, when the show was well past its attendance peak.
I notified the HE show management about this, and they made sure at HE2002 that everyone had ballots, so there was no further problem.
As for "Heavy Campaigning" - we don't do it, simply because heavy campaigning for votes at a Hifi show is not likely to be effective. There would probably be a backlash of people who would be bothered by such tactics that would result in the loss of some votes. We do urge everyone who visits our room to vote, and remind them of the importance of their opinions at this show. We emphatically do NOT tell people WHO to vote for. If they wanted to vote for us, well, who are we to disagree?
Strangely enough, I've seen advertisments claiming to have "Best Sound at CES Show" and "Best Speaker at CES" without attribution. It would appear that other mfg's have seen our ads, and decided that they could make similar claims as if they were honored with some sort of voting award at the CES show. There is NO such voting at CES. Those in the know will see through those claims. We take our claims seriously, and have no need to exaggerate the honors bestowed upon our speakers. (Including "Joint Speaker Of the Year 2002" for the RM7si signature Mk2's)
When you go to listen, try to audition the Pearls and the
new RM33si Limited Edition...you might just find out why we've won so many awards.
Mr. Joseph-I will speak for myself here. I can't remember when or if a manufacturer has ever entered into the lion's den here on AudioGon....but I find it refreshing and I would like to say thank you for doing so. Your explaination to the events discussed above are appreciated. To me, it shows your proactive response to certain situations whether it be making sure people have ballots and pencils or designing great sounding speakers. I can only speculate that the Audiophile community has been hit with so much BS from manufacturers and dealers that we are somewhat hard to convince. I have heard your speakers at two shows and I was impressed. You have my vote.
Joseph Audio speakers have consistently impressed me. I think their steep-slope crossover is a very elegant approach, and they are very nicely voiced. And as we have seen here (and numerous times over at the Asylum), Jeff Joseph himself is quite a gentleman.
After auditioning his speakers at CES for the first time a couple of years ago, I spoke with Jeff about the possibility of becoming a dealer. Jeff explained to me that he requires a retail storefront, and of course I respect that decision. But if I had a storefront, Joseph Audio would easily be among the front-runners in a more or less conventional-looking speaker.
One of my best friends owns the Joseph RM33si. He also uses SS amps and preamp. He has them in a room with some problems. He has them very close to the back wall. I have never been impressed with any of his systems.
I am now wanting to spend as much time as possible listening to his incredible music making machine. He will soon have his Spectral 360 monos, Mit Oracle IC and speaker cable, and will soon add dedicated lines. I can't wait to hear what will be an obvious improvement over his already excellent music making setup.
I hope his new beautiful, classy, knockout bride can tolerate my many visits to come. i just won't let her get to know me too good. I have a new system to listen to and i didn't pay a penny. The RM33si is one of a few great speakers. You may never know it listening to it in a dealers showroom. I am not a Jeff Joseph fan. I don't even like him for reasons that has nothing to do with his integrity, service, or any reasons that should cause concern buying his products. But i am sold on the RM33si.
I like the RM33sis, but they just didnt get my toe tapping enough in the audition. I also worry about the low impedance.
What did get me going are the new Avantgarde Solos---tremendous speaker at the same price, including built-in amps. Perhaps the best speaker I have heard under 13-14k.
the joseph audio speakers sounded great at ces, and no, they didn't ask me to vote for them. they were a bit too crisp/dry for longterm enjoyment, though.
i would have to steer you towards auditioning vandersteens. the 5's are particularly outstanding. yes, i know they cost a bit more, but watch for a used pair.
Hey there - I know this is about 33si which in advance you have my vote to buy... they are just great... I am an opera tenor so I guess and hope my ears are in good shape with regards to others'... I guess less subjective at least... they sound like the real thing (almost as any other some other speakers including $50k and $60k ones).
I just wanted to let you know that I happily own a pair of 25SIs and they sound beautifully and I have auditioned various times the 33s and I think they are superior (specially for the money), some findings are: Thruth of timbre and spatial information presentation, more relaxed presentation.
And I do not think these are the kind of speakers which will demand to have a huge space on the back to perform great. On the other hadn they wont demand a BIG DEAL OF POWER... HOW ARE U DRIVING THEM?.
SOME OF MY GEAR IS: PLINIUS SA250 MKIV (with latest factory upgrade), Plinius M16p preamp, and ML390s CDP... cables are important... I recommend to you to consider silver wiring for these speakers at least in my set up it worked better.
Contact me to chat!
In defense of Jeff Joseph and his speakers, while I found the format of playing controlled material less to my liking than just playing what folks want to hear (this can be said about most exibits, and is a pet peeve of mine at the 3 shows I've been to), I personally found the Pearl/Manley set-up at Hi-Fi 2002 to definitely be among the best if not the best at the show (the "St James Infirmiry" finale was THE BEST "you are there" demo), Jeff or Eva Marie Manley did not ask for my vote but Jeff did remind folks to vote as he stated above. I would reserve final judgement on the Piega because I just didn't like the 5 channel demo by Sanibel, certainly not because of the speakers which sounded quite seamless for a multi-driver system. Both are nice systems but like Twl, at this price point Sound Labs A-3's would also be on my short list. I thought they were a bit more than 8K though.
With your existing equipment, I would think the Piega would a better match than the Joseph which would benefit greater from tube gear IMO.
In defense of Jeff Joseph, I have heard them just once and thought for a dynamic speaker, they gave a balanced presentation from top to bottom. If I were to look at purchasing a new speaker system they would be one of a handful that I would audition. As for the commments about being dry, I believe this perception occurs because the speakers do not place any emphasis on any one octave tonally;a very natural sounding speaker system. They image very well and have a very large soundstage side to side.
I agree with Dolphin. I listened to the Pearls at the show in NYC and also demo-ed a few other models at Park Avenue Audio. My impression was that they were very detailed but also dry sounding. The fatigue factor can not be overlooked.
The thing about being a speaker manufacturer is that the speakers get the credit or the blame for the sound - even if the problem is one of setup or upstream components.
The speakers are now at Avantgarde Music & Cinema in Manhattan- I think if you audition them there you'll come away with quite a different impression than what you got from Park Avenue Audio. Bob Visintainer knows how to set things up properly.
Call him at 212 229-1842. He's a great guy.