Tony, not an ad at all. Not sure why you'd say that when it's JA of all folks posting his thoughts on a brand new product by a pillar of the audio world.
I was also intrigued that Basis decided to attend with their table as they keep things going after AJ's death. I was blessed to get to converse with AJ often. Yes, he was one of the true gentlemen in all of audio and is missed by many of us. I just sold my own Basis TT as I have to get out of analog for physical reasons. Along with VPI and so many others, Basis makes a great product at all their price ranges.
I made this post to get dialog going on new and what seem to be cool products that I personally haven't had the chance to listen to. I'm hoping that some who went to the show can share their thoughts, good and bad. Don't see how that's an ad, especially since I'm an audiophile just like you and have no skin in the game.
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pdp, does it have analog room correction built in? I believe it will just move more air and integrate well.
Guys, the reason I posted this is to get dialog going as I said. By using 4 of the same subs, you can do a swarm and equalize any 'hot' spots in the room. I am strongly considering his smaller subs with my Quatro's for just this reason.
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Hifiman, many of us have been audiophiles for many many years and have owned a ton of gear. You used the word objective and I concur. Right now I love Vandersteen's, but I purchased Proacs over Vandy's many years ago, even though my dealer sold both. I own Ayre, but was always a tube guy and still have an Aestheix Rhea I'm about sell sell (getting out of vinyl) as I didn't like the Ayre phono stage.
Plenty of great gear out there that would make me happy to own. Before I purchased my new Quatro's, I scoured the market. I went to listen to everything I possibly could hear. As I've always said, my ear love the Vandersteen's. I am not into looking at drivers when I listen. All I know is that when I audition speakers, if I'm talking audio with the sales person after the first two or three cuts, then I know I'm not into the gear I'm listening to. As audio has gotten better and better, I still haven't found speakers other than my Vandy's where I just want to go up and listen for hours on end. Others I speak with often feel the same about their speakers and that's awesome and the way it should be.
I guess I knew that haters would come to this thread to change the intent, so I'll try to move it back to what it was originally about.
JA waxed poetic about Vandersteen's 9 system along with the AR pre and the Basis TT. I was wondering if anyone got to listen to this set up and what they heard.
Again, I'm so intrigued by swarming subs to smooth out the response and also to move even more air as needed. I know Vandersteen was working on a huge speaker that would have been called the 9, but with that huge cabinet he wasn't able to get the sound to be coherent and point source like, which they are known for. I think that separating the subs like he's done should make this system even better than the behemoths out there, because the four subs (two built into the speakers) all have 11 band eq and you can move them around the room and aren't tied to just two spots like you are with two speakers.
I wonder if others will do the same with their systems as it's proven that using 4 or more subs works best. Even for inexpensive subs like 'The Swarm' you can get really good bass. Bass is the most expensive part of the spectrum to recreate properly. That means both tonally as well as going deep AND moving air. I've heard too many subs move a ton of air, but not tonally accurate. I've heard subs that will move air, but tonally accurate, but NOT recreate the lowest of octaves.
I haven't loved most sub systems for audio. For me, the only way I've enjoyed a sub system is when you are using a full range speaker so you have more continuity from top to bottom.
I'm hoping that maybe we can stay on course about subs as I'm trying to learn more. I haven't spent enough time with subs to be totally comfortable with their integration. The Quatro's are the first subs I've had in my room that work and it's because we were able to eq them and I do like that the design has allowed my amp to be freed up from 100hz on up. For me, it's been a major transformation. I don't know if other subs have analog integration like this?? I have yet to hear anything done digitally that you couldn't hear. I too would love to set up a mike and hit a few buttons and be done with it. I had that in my spare bedroom with a Marantz AVR set up with some small Paradigm/sub (it was cheap and most folks don't care, lol). I liked it better without the digital correction. I have also hear the Lyndorf digital deal in a room that has a terrible 50hz vibration (yes, it's in a showroom and they've had this problem since 1980 or so) and it took care of it, but honestly it ruined the rest of the sound for me. Spec of veiling.
Ok, that's where I'm at and I'm much more open minded than many may think when reading my posts. That said, I'd love to hear thoughts on the few subjects that are out there in this thread and maybe haters can go to another thread since they aren't interested in what I think could be a fun discussion. Thanks |
Thanks for sharing Tomic. Too funny as I have had the Stages many years ago and I wanted Cornwalls since I got started in audio in 69 or so. Too funny..
I agree on the cost. I work know a carbon fiber manufacture who designed and makes the CF wheel chairs for racing as well as the BMW hulls for crew. I have also worked with it and it's very expensive and it's not easy. Did I mention how expensive it is? I also know that my Quatro's, that have the auto paint went through many clear coats as well as cutting and buffing. That's a LOT of labor as I finish my wood projects and it's a long drawn out process to get it perfect. I have yet to find a flaw in my paint (yes I look with my special light and mag glass, lol. Not a swirl in the finish. I am going to do my own ceramic nano coating on them too.
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Thanks for sharing that Tomic. We need to talk CF, lol. BTW, a big box came in the mail for a Basis TT yesterday! Ha...:) Waiting on a clam shell for a Benz cart.... |
Richfield. We need to catch up before I go to Cancun on Wed. Want to hear about the show. Maybe next year I can tag along with you guys. We'd have a blast for sure.
Thanks for sharing about the new Basis TT. AJ told me about it last year I think it was and he probably spent an hour on the phone explaining it all. Man do I miss him. Just a great guy and I see why he and Richard were so close for all these years.
I assumed the 9's would take it to a new level for so many reasons, but you are the first one I know who's heard it and shared about it. I realize it solves the problem he had of moving more air in rooms without hurting the SQ. Seems like he's solved more problems than creating more by separating the enclosures of the mains and the 2 extra subs. I will wait until he puts the 11 band EQ into his smaller sub (pray he does this eventually) and get a pair to augment the Quatro's. I personally like to stay in the same company line if I'm going to use subs. They are voiced the same and integrate better I feel. That goes for anyone's speaker's/subs. JMHO |
Prof, I agree with everything you have said. We all have favorite reviewers or maybe some hate all reviews. JA does indeed have a keen ear and although he will find all the good things a piece will do, he won't wax poetic unless he loves a piece. I believe that he owns Vandersteen 7's for his personal listening as many reviewers do. I found that out AFTER I became a lover of their sound. In the 90's, I always wanted a pair of Avalon's, lol. Loved the cabinet and the sound. I never realized they were also a first order cross over and time and phase correct. I felt Jim Theil's speakers could be a bit bright back then, but loved what they did. We've really had some great designers and still do. There's a new crop of them coming along.
I do feel the if a speaker doesn't measure well, it usually doesn't sound good either. I've noticed a ton of the top end speakers tipping the treble up a db to three to sound more 'open' and 'alive', but for me it shuts me down as it's irritating. Some folks put their list of 'audition' speakers together by the measurements shared before going to listen. It's not 100% maybe, but it's pretty close I bet.
Spot on post in my humble opinion Prof. Thanks. |
Yes, that's not a curve at all. It's just some designers who, turn up the brightness control like LCD TV's in Best Buy to have them stand out. These speakers are 'loved' by many, but are not what you hear at live music events. That's fine if that's what folks want, just like Vandersteen's are fine for me, because that's what I want.
I don't see how JA has anything to do with how a speaker measures. I also say measuring isn't a be all end all and there are always a few exceptions to the rule.
Heck, I can live with the Audio Note speakers and their knock offs. They remind me of great FM music. Can listen all day and love listening. That said, to ME, they don't have a sound stage that many high end speakers have. They aren't as dynamic or tight as many others, but man are they fun. I feel that I've chosen a speaker that does ALL of that.
I do want to hear about the 'curve', but in regards to what Richfield posted about the system 9, I can't wait to hear it. If I could ever afford them and they really do sound like Richfield says they do (I'm good friends with him and know what he likes and what he LOVES), I will really want a pair that shows only the carbon fiber with clear coats on it (yes, I asked once and they WILL do that if folks really want that).
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I won't get into the politics of it all as it's not always pretty (but can be depending on who you may deal with), but I've said for years that designers are voicing their speakers in a way I described above. Vandersteen and Avalon before him, never do that/did that. Real world listening and anechoic chamber listening are also totally different as you know Erik.
There needs to be a balance to get things right in an every day environment, but the problem to ME, is that we have these references forced down out throats by the pubs/bloggers and so many don't go to enough live performance's or they just listen to others and not their ears.
Thanks for sharing likes to support what you are sharing. Makes it much easier to understand. I'm much more in your camp IRT the manipulated curves. That's just the way audio is and always has been. Folks are told what to believe and most don't fully trust their own ears and so many rarely, if ever go to live events. Even at live events, it may be at a venue with crappy sound (so many are).
You get used to what you own and that's what counts. Folks always say how happy they are, but Audiogon proves that most aren't. I look back at my last 5 years in audio and asked myself if I'm being a hypocrite by saying that as I've changed every component in my own system during that time frame.
Went from a new system of Vandersteen Treo's (now own Vandersteen Quatro's), Music Hall DAC/headphone amp (then to the Empirical Audio ODSE/SE and now the Ayre QX5/20), Ayre AX7e integrated (then the Ayre AX5 and then upgraded to the 20 version). Music server is the fully rebuilt (by Steve Nugent) Mac Mini with Paul Hynes LPS. Bought a Basis 1400 TT (just sold it to a friend) and an Aesthetix Rhea Phono pre stage completely rebuilt and updated by Jim White's team (about to put it up for sale).
I need to get out of Vinyl due to health reasons (can't get up and change albums ever 20 minutes), but I've stayed with the same company for my changes and all were major upgrades that I expected to do when I got my new system 5 years ago.
I don't feel the need to tune with new cables or anything else. I did go from a Synergistic Research Powercell 10 mk 2 Tesla power conditioner to the new Audioquest Niagara (yes, putting the SR power cell up for sale too, lmao). I have had all balanced AQ cables and when I did the A/B testing, felt the Niagara was better for my system in my room.
In my ears I trust, lol. Interesting where the thread is going. |
Great 100th post Prof, lol. I would love to sit and talk audio with you as well as enjoy music. I agree with so much of what you are posting. I too have gone from liking 'vivid' speakers etc.. to a more coherent speaker, but I still need a harsh piano key to give me the percussive as well as the actual note with it's true decay. That can and is being done by great speakers. |
wow, I reread much of this thread and found it fascinating. I was talking with a designer yesterday about real world listening vs listening in a chamber. It makes sense to listen and voice in a real room since that's what most of us listen in anyways. I know a few designers who do only this along with some measurements and always seem to produce popular and outstanding equipment.
Most of the listening rooms I heard/hear when I'm at a dealer are just not good. They usually are over damped and bordering on dead sound wise. I'm sure many of you will disagree and tell me I'm at the wrong dealers, but this is MANY over a lifetime. Some have great rooms, but they also aren't trying to sell many room tuning devices I don't think, lol.
It started off with the Vandy Sub 9 system. I know a few who have gone this route and I'd love to hear their thoughts on how it has been sounding now that they've lived with it for awhile. Not looking to get into politics or changing the subject or other subs as I'm not interested in those. Just want to know their thoughts on the Sub 9. Thanks. |
Thanks Jim. I think I want the new M5 mono blocks and eventually maybe the smaller subs lol. |
