JL Audio CR-1 Crossover


So, I own 4 JL Audio F-113 subs. Each of these were bought used and all have been updated at JL Audio.

I have been very happy using them in my system. The main speakers are Focal Sopra 2’s. I am using a Iso-Max Jensen transformer(s) model #SP-2SX to connect the subs to my mains and it seems to work pretty well. BTW, the Iso Max unit(s) convert speaker level to balanced (similar to the Rel subs) using Speak-On fittings.

The JL Audio solution to the high/low band pass issue was their CR-1 Electronic crossover. I always wanted to try one of these but at $3000 list I didn’t think it could improve that much over my Iso Max unit(s).

However, I was able to find a used JL Audio CR-1 electronic crossover and I have just now connected it up.

The first thing I noticed was how much very low bass I was missing. Example: Linda Ronstadt “Blue Bayou” the bass now digs into the subterranean.

I guess I need to play with it a while. but I was wonderin’ if anyone else who owns or has owned this unit can share any set ups tips and general opinions of the unit.

ozzy

Bc4a0914 6194 48fd bd39 be2ab770836cozzy

I don't know this specific unit, but yes, having a properly configured line level crossover has many many benefits.

Thanks erik. I’m thinking the reason there is so much more "low bass" is because I was drawing the bass out of the speaker outputs. Now I am getting the bass directly from the source in this case my Lumin X1.

ozzy

 

Ozzy on Linda Ronstadt was the source an LP or CD or ?

 

Vinyl at my place can hit 30hz, I don’t use a rumble filter either. My stuff can’t pump it’s servo. Deepest hitting vinly rigs I’ve heard are always servo bass AND direct coupled..

CD or stream is source dependent, if it’s there my servos will play it below 20.

4 F113s ain’t cheap, they are really nice looking with a ton of features.. At least they arn’t bottom firing without a butt plate.. EX: REL Bad idea, old tech.. None I my buddies use bottom firing subs any more. Neighbors complain to much...

I stopped the waves in the neighbors pool!! 

Regards

My source is a High Rez Download.

I like "the stop the waves in the pool" comments, I would think mine would create some white caps!.

ozzy

 

I don't know anything about the JL CR-1, but I've been a big believer in using the low level inputs to all my subs. Exactly what you have described, more very deep bass. Some REL "experts" think using the high level inputs are better, so I just quit debating this. Enjoy!

When I looked at RELs design and read THEIR BS. I did the same. They are WAY behind in Bass tech. It is literally 70-80s tech. Bottom firing with NO butt plate (or slot loaded). There is NO way to decouple from the floor without adding a slot.. 

NONE of my buddies have used subs constructed like that in 30 years.... Nice paint though.. LOL REL owners like SPL, and FEELING the bass that's easy.. Buy exciters.. doing the same thing.. smearing the bass signal over evey surface in the room behind NOT decoupling.. They sound terrible to me, make my ears hurt..

I use to run JL W12s in my auto stuff in the 90s I think it was W12s Serious drivers..

Regards

The CR-1 has been a very impactful addition to my system for 2 years now. The main improvement was unexpected; the speaker's (high frequency and midrange) output became clearer. JL explained that it’s due to the speakers being alleviated from the lower frequency bass duty. The cross overs (on the subs) cannot do this. The CR-1 is excellent.

@ozzy - I can’t imagine using 4 of these JL F113 beasts. I have 2, my room is 18X20x9 and the bass is very palatable in the listening locations. The bass must be extremely uniform in your room. Best Regards.

 

Thank you so much for the comments. I am really surprised in the difference between line level and speaker level low bass response.

jmarshak,

What crossover frequency are using with your JL subs and crossover?

ozzy

Congrats, ozzy! I dream of the CR-1.

I have a pair of JL Audio e110s connected like REL. Since I run an integrated that lacks the ability to "loop" the CR-1 into the system, it's going to stay a dream, at least for a while. 

Enjoy!

gita,

Never thought about an intergrated amp with the CR-1. Seems like there should be a way to make it work.

ozzy

Ozzy, I could put it in front of my Cary sli-80, but that would accommodate only one input; either my cd player or my 'table.

Or I could first put my two sources into a passive preamp, then that pre into the CR-1, then split into the Cary and the subs.

It gets complicated and adds more to the signal path. Discouraging.

Anyway, I don't mean to rain on your parade. Enjoy!

I replaced a pair of RELs (using high level input from the amp) with a pair of fathoms with a CR1. This was to correct a 60Hz room mode on the vertical axis generated by the main speakers.  There are measurements pics of this on my system page. The CR1 has a button to switch on/off the crossover circuitry, so A/B is easy. In my case bass extension is a little less and the blurriness around 60Hz reappears with the subs and crossover circuity off. The promise of decreased upper frequency distortion was not materialized in my case, although the coherence between the woofer and the "midrange/tweeter" improved. I have just used factory settings at 80Hz which seems like an obvious choice based on my problem. Playing the damping only made it wound worse. I am still experiemnting with placement/DARO a little bit as well as phase. It seems damping would be normal last step. As a side I find DARO pretty havey handed through its band, making "good enough" placement idiot proof. I am still working through it, though.  

gita, Perhaps contact JL Audio for suggestions?

ohlala, If this helps:

I started with my subs close to the back corners, then I used the DARO. After that I tried to blend their output with my main speakers. Then I used the CR-1 to blend everything together.

But, I too am still experimenting with all the other settings. I can say though that just 2 days with the CR-1 and I am pretty happy with the bass intergration.

BTW, I also have 4-ASC 20" tube traps in all 4 corners.

ozzy

I had help from acoustic frontiers in sub/speaker relocation to smooth out bass. I have at least a hundred REW measurement from this misadventure. The subs ended up near opposite corners of the room, which flattened all but the 60Hz. Elevating them half way up the wall helped partially, and the crossover eliminated it. With the fathoms, I now have a 20 Hz issue, below what DARO controls. I pulled one sub out in the room as far as resonable to flatten it, but created a massive 34Hz issue that daro amazingly corrected. I did waterfall overlay between the two radically different positions, and there was not much difference even in decay time. I could not really hear a difference either. I may try moving one sub to the corner, so the pair are symmetric to see what happens. 

Like you suggest, I also EQ’d it then adjusted levels, which is easy. The LF trim control’s bandwidth is too broad, so of course volume has to be adjusted. Unfortunately I do not know how to use stereo with separate phase controls and use DARO at the same time. Are you using master/salve configuration?

ohlala,

Thanks for that info.

With my 4 F-113’s I am using left-right stereo configuration and then connected the same L-R to the rear subs. With all set as Master. This allows the ability to set the DARO individually.

ozzy

I have been curious whether the CR-1 reduces any transparency in the signal to the mains. 

@ozzy - I cross over at 90 HZ with CR-1

peter_s

Yes that is also my concern since previously I was sending the signal direct from Lumin X1 directly to my amps thus bypassing a preamp and all the associated cabling.

Now with the CR-1 I have again additional electronics and cabling in the chain.

But, so far I am having a hard time determing if there is in fact a reduction in transparancy.

ozzy

jmarshak,

I am crossing over at 80Hz. But still experimenting. Why did you choose 90Hz.?

ozzy

hi @ozzy 

90Hz is what JL recommends.  Also, I tried several from 70hz to 110 and did not like other x-over frequencies any better. Regardless if it's 80 or 90,  I believe the most important part is to find the right phasing on each sub.  That's when the entire system just clicks-in! 

Best Regards

 

For those of you who do own a CR-1 and want to use it with your home theater. The directions are incorrect. If you connect a RCA sub input from the Home theater into the "Managed Subs" input  on the CR-1 you must output using the same type of output (RCA) to your subs. The same goes for XLR input.

I actually used a XLR/RCA adapter into the "Managed Subs" input so that I could still use the XLR subwoofer outputs.

I hope I explained this correctly.

ozzy

Thanks for your reply, Ozzy. I may try to set the DARO individually. My subs are positioned  to cancel a 40Hz mode, and I do not know how the equalizer will react. Obviously it can only really work at minimum phase. Doesn't hurt to try.