Jazz for aficionados


Jazz for aficionados

I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.

Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.

The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".

"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.

While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.

Enjoy the music.
orpheus10

Frogman, I have "The Complete Blue Note Recordings of The Tina Brooks Quintets", that was put out on Mosaic Records. He expressed "Tina Brooks" eloquently, and that's what it's all about. Some of the musicians that appear with him on this 4 LP box set, are Lee Morgan, Sonny Clark, Doug watkins, Art Blakey, Jackie McClean, Blue Mitchell, Paul Chambers, and Philly Joe Jones. While there are other stars on this record set, the music is "Tina Brooks", and I'm glad I got to hear it.

Enjoy the music.
I knew my ears were burning this morning for some reason . WOW! They really worked me over. That CHAZRO is a caution, ain't he? You would have thought that a guru from stereophile had been spotted in bestbuy, the way he was howling and foaming at the mouth.
Archie Bunker?? I think I remeber him. All in the family. He was the one with the JOB. It could have been worst, he could have called me The Meathead!! And all this over a 'discussion' to which he was not even a party. I hate to think what would happened if anyone spoke to him directly.

Learsfool:
"There is no one on this board anywhere near as knowledgeable as Frogman in the subjects you have been trying to argue about with him."

According to....??????? And exactly what 'subjects'. I hope he is not 'self appointed' If he has a position, he should have kicked his credentials.

Cheers
Orpheus10:

I listened to Nina Simone today. The Philips recordings 'Four Women'. All the usual adjectives just don't seem adequate. This is really some seriously great music / singing. She makes even pop songs special. The wife and I sat down and listened to all 4 CDs without break. It is that good. What a talent!
Better get it before it's listed by 'these sellers' for 900 dollars.

I have about 5 of the Chucho Valdez CDs. He is a good player. As you said, without qualifier. I don't have him with the Afro-Cuban messengers, but I did listen to him 'At the Village Vanguard'.

I was so moved, I thought I was back in Baghdad or Seville or some other hot-bed of Jazz.

Get the Nina thingy. You won't be sorry.

Cheers

Rok, I've already got Nina, I'm going to have to catch up with you on Chucho Valdes. Where do I start?
I've been in the wings here but it seems to me that everyones experience, points of view and preferences are valid and of use to someone.
I know of Mosaic, Analogue Productions and Mobile Fidelity and just recently Pure Pleasure with respect to remastered reissues. What about the Japanese labels, and what are some other quality remaster and reissue labels in general?
I can digitally accommodate a frequency of 192 kHz which I'd like to put to the test. As a side note, I'm at a disadvantage when it comes to vinyl since I only own a mono cartridge (no I did that on purpose).
Any advice is gratefully appreciated.

We made a wrong turn, I hope we can acknowledge that fact, drop it 100% and move on. Otherwise we all lose.

Never before have I been in a conversation with so many astute jazz aficionados. They can contribute to the most important aspect of an audiophile's enjoyment, and that is "good" new music. "New" in this case being music you haven't heard before.

Frogman demonstrated his expertise in two musical genres. I mentioned a movie by the wrong title, and made a comment about the music. He came back with the movie by it's correct title, who wrote the soundtrack, and why the music was Cuban as opposed to Brazilian. Next, he posted on "Tina Brooks", who was an under appreciated tenor sax player, that only the most astute aficionados are aware of. Lately, I've been able to "hear" Tina Brooks. Only when, and if, you're on the resonant frequency of the music being played can you "hear" it, otherwise it's just noise.

When musical treasures are out in the open, and people are walking right past them, no one considers them a treasure, especially after this has occurred over a period of many years. If this treasure was so special, some one would have pointed it out after all this time, they say; not necessarily so.

Nina Simone was an accomplished classical pianist, who had been rooted in the church; she was playing piano at a lounge to fund the continuation of her education as a classical pianist when the owner told her to sing. Before this, the thought of singing for a living never entered her mind. Of course you know the rest, but now I'm going to tell you what this aficionado knows, that most don't know.

Nina's piano is a combination of gospel, jazz, and classical. It's one of the most unique jazz pianos I've ever heard. If she hadn't sang, she would be famous as a jazz or classical pianist. This musical treasure will soon disappear. Each new compilation only includes the vocals, I don't know what happens to the instrumentals, and before long, no one else will either. They only appear on the original LP's or CD copies of those LP's and not on the compilations, that's why they're disappearing. Fortunately you can enjoy them on "You tube". Here's the list: Nina's Blues, Flo Me La, Blues On Purpose, African Mailman, and Good Bait.

All past contributions to this thread have been much appreciated, and your future contributions will be appreciated even more.

Enjoy the music.
Orpheus10:

I did listen to Chucho valdes today. His 'Live at the Village Vanguard'. This guy is a monster on the Keyboard!! He is brilliant! The question is whether or not the music grabs you. I will leave that up to you. I like Jazz with a beginning, middle and end. His sister sings on one of the tunes. One reviewer said: "valdes' command of the keyboard is so technically staggering as to be stupefying". hahahaha That sounds a little scary! Check it out on youtube if it's there. It's a keeper for sure. "Must Have'? That's a different question. Overall it came across as too much of an 'exhibition'. A few horns would have helped. This may have been a case of just too much piano. The percussion only got a chance to solo on one track.

Danilo Perez -- PanaMonk

This Cd was much more to my liking. Perez' take on Monk. I didn't hear much Monk, but the tunes were familiar, so maybe that's why they sounded so good. He is a great Piano player also.

Irakere -- The Best Of Irakere

I am not sure what to make of this. Some great music for dancing. And some Jazz. But sometimes I got the feeling I was listening to someone trying to play like WAR or Santana or EW&F. I think everyone was trying to 'out-play' everyone else in the band. The Mozart thingy, by Paquito, was very cute. 'Xiomara' was my favorite.

Mario Bauza & his Afro-Cuban Jazz Orch -- My Time is Now

A very important founding figure in the whole Afro-Cuban Jazz scene. And there is one thing we can say about this CD. The name of the group states very clearly what type music is being played. Good stuff.

I didn't get a chance to play Mongo. Will save him for another day. He was my first introduction to afro-cuban Jazz back in the day.

One other thing. Read the liner notes on all of this music. It's fascinating! Read them and then say there is not a battle going on for the soul of Jazz.

FROGMAN: Do you write liner notes? I read some stuff thst sounds just like you. :)

Cheers
****FROGMAN: Do you write liner notes? I read some stuff thst sounds just like you. :)****

I am a patient man, Rok; and I feel strongly enough about music and the promotion of factual appreciation of it to be willing to take another shot at trying to have a dialogue with you about this in the hope that you, a person who in spite of your sometimes incongruous views and plain bad form, do show a love for music; on your level, anyway. So, is your question an honest one? Or is it sarcasm with some underlying agenda? If it is honest, I would be glad to answer it. If it is the latter, then go ahead and hurl one more incongrous comment, or simply, don't respond at all. Either way is fine, but I am done with the bickering.

However, I will offer this little nugget; and one that I offered once before in this thread: Don't rely on liner notes; they usually only scratch the surface. Liner notes are like Cliff Notes (remember those?). Relying on liner notes is like giving more credence to the technical commentary in an audio magazine review than listening to what someone like Ralph Karsten, or a Jonathan Carr has to say about the same subject; or doing more extensive reading of authoritative musicological writings on your own.

So, which is it? Honest, or not?
It's honest. Comments about the slaves and drums etc.... remember?
Actually, I have written liner notes for a handful of recordings; but, not for records discussed here, nor are they in this genre.

What I find most frustrating about discussion of music in audiophile circles is that, more times than not, the subjects are discussed at a very superficial level; reliance on liner notes as the "end-all". This stuff, it's history and it's truly proper place in the larger scheme of the art world, runs very very deep. But, there really is very little mystery. It's all pretty well documented; we just have to be willing to do more than cursory reading, and dig a little deeper. It's kind of like audiophiles talking about accuracy in music reproduction when they never go hear live music. Huh?

I don't like to, nor feel the need to, "kick my credentials" (to use your phrase); nor even feel the need to rely on "credentials". But, if you must know, my humble credentials are simply being a professional musician for my entire working life (35 years), attending music conservatory and studying jazz music history (among many other subjects; of course), playing in Latin bands for many years before moving to a totally different genre and segment of the music industry. The education that I got playing with and listening to these Latin players, especially the old-timers, was invaluable. I played in Mario Bauza's last band in the mid-eighties, which coincided with my transitioning away from Latin music performance, and more into the classical music arena. It was there that, ironically, I had the opportunity to work with Paquito D'Rivera and premiered a couple of his classical chamber works.

I will stop before I feel the need to delete this.
Well, your 'credentials' are very impressive indeed. You should 'kick' them more often. For now on, I will know from where you speak. So now, we have you on music and almarg on the techie stuff. It's good to have real sources on this site.

I, on the other hand, am still left with my personal preferences in music. And my determination to stand up for what I feel is truth. I withdraw all the historical blunders I may have made. Just one thing in closing, the great Jazz Violinist, Stephane Grappelli, while being interviewed about his career, said that he thought he had made a contribution through his playing, but that he never forgot that, it(Jazz), was a Black Art Form. And that was my only point during the entire 'discussion'.

I am glad to know we have a source (goto guy), for music now. Thanks for the post.

Cheers
Frogman:

BTW, I read liner notes after I buy. I don't rely on them to make a purchase. I just like to read details of the recording and the artist. I used to do that with LPs. Liner notes and album art have caused me to buy many LPs. But they only cost $2.50 at that time. That Nat Hentoff has gotten many a dollar out of me.

Cheers
I appreciate the sentiment, but there are other members here who are extremely knowledgable in specific and/or general areas of music; either by way of being professional musicians (Learsfool), or having been very devoted to educating themselves on a deep level. There's usually much more to all this than meets the eye.

BTW, liner notes can be great; and many are very well written. My point is simply that they are usually a condensed version of the entire story. When I say don't rely on them, I mean don't rely on them for the "whole truth and nothing but the truth". The purpose of liner notes is to highlight the featured artist and put him/her in a certain context. They usually don't highlight the context itself.
Foster, I understand why you said "Oh my Lord!" That was beyond words. I feel fortunate to have heard and seen it. Thank you much.

Enjoy the music.
Tired of all this 'serious' discussion? Don't really care what Coltrane was trying to say? Who the hell is Sun Ra? Think 'Free jazz' is a little 'too free'?

I have the cure for what ails ya!

Louis Jordan -- Five Guys Named Moe (vol 2)

I remember hearing this music when I was pre-school age. I remember hearing my parents talk about Jordan. This is just music to be happy. As a bonus, there is a duet with Louis Armstrong. Pops plays a little trumpet also.
On the tune 'Open the Door Richard' I remember hearing the line "I know he's in there, cause I got the clothes on" hahahaha That is as funny today as it was back in the days of the 78rpm records. Get this and forget all your troubles.

Cheers

Foster, the key to finding what you're looking for is the time. My recorded version is 7 minutes long while that was 18 minutes long. The biggest difference is Horace's long "unrestrained" solo. That goes for "Senor Blues" as well.

Although I've got a ton of Silver's music, nothing like that. Let me know if you find a CD of what you're looking for.

Enjoy the Music.
Stanley Turrentine -- Hustlin'
with/ Shirley Scott, Kenny Burrell, Bob Cranshaw, Otis Finch.

This is what they call 'Soul Jazz'. This Cds is very smooth. Music to think by. No fireworks here, but things really move along. Had a hard day, wanna unwind and just meditate and think? This is the type Jazz you need. Scott (stanley's wife), is very effective on organ.

This is not Jazz for a club or a concert hall. It's Jazz for the home. With someone, it's even better.
They even dip into Dvorak's New World. Dvorak and Lloyd Price? That's covering the waterfront.

Alberta Hunter, Lucille Hegamin, Victoria Spivey -- 'Songs We Taught Your Mother'

Well, we have a Tuba, A clarinet, J.C. Higginbotham and Willie 'The lion' Smith. We know what this means. This is old school music, even by my standards. But, I love it. The word that flashes in my mind when I hear it is, 'Home'. These ladies are up in age, but they sound so natural. All the tracks seem to be the blues, but since it was in the Jazz section of my rack, it will be Jazz for today. Good sound. Recorded in 1961. Very slight tape hiss on some tapes. Not objectionable.

Cheers

"Soul Jazz", that sounds like an appropriate name for the music presented by this aggregation. However, I beg to differ in regard to the home thing. I picture myself seated at a table with a beautiful lady who enjoyed jazz even more than me. Kenney Burrell's resonant guitar is the perfect compliment to Stanley's sax and Shirley's organ. There's nothing like the scintillating feeling you get from live music reverberating in your ear; the most expensive rig can't even come close, and since this is my fantasy, that's the way I'm hearing it.

"The Electrifying Eddie Harris" is my pick. Artists on this album were: Eddie Harris - tenor saxophone, varitone
Melvin Lastie, Joe Newman - trumpet
King Curtis - tenor saxophone
David Newman - tenor saxophone, baritone saxophone
Haywood Henry - baritone saxophone
Jodie Christian - piano
Melvin Jackson - bass
Richard Smith - drums
Ray Barretto, Joe Wohletz - percussion.

"Theme in Search of a Movie" is just that, it sounds like every beautiful musical score you've ever heard, all rolled into one. Some of Eddie Harris's most beautiful music is on this LP, while his most exciting music was with him and Les McCan, on "Compared to What". That music is just as real and relevant today as it was then.
Charlie Mariano, my favorite alto player, and one who slips under the radar way too often. Clearly a bebopper, he covered a lot of stylistic ground including Middle Eastern (we won't go there again, Rok) in his later recordings. But, his recordings from the fifties are straight-ahead and beautiful. One can hear the Bird influence in the shape of his lines, but unique in the choice of notes within those shapes. A beautiful player:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56m5Vre5h6U

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RheQyi5KuRA
Another overlooked great, and one of the most interesting and unusual (in sound and concept) tenor players was Warne Marsh. A West Coast player who was one of the main exponents of the Cool School and a protege of the great Lennie Tristano. His use of the piano-less rhythm section was a testament to the great command of harmony that he had. One of the true tests for a jazz player, and considered by the players themselves one of the things that separates the "men from the boys" is the ability to improvise over a tune without the "crutch" of the piano's harmonic underpinnings.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y_8UYtd2K4
I heard Marsh Play 'body and soul' with Kenny Drew. I also listen to Marsh and Konitz on "donna lee'. I was surprised. I actually enjoyed them both. I will defer to you on the technical analysis, but if I did not know who was playing, I would have thought it could have been any number of the Blue Note era guys. Thats tall cotton in my world.

I also heard Gonzalo Rubalcaba play 'donna lee'. Both were great. When you can hang with the big boys, there is not much more to be said. The individual differnces and nuances are what makes it all so great.

I will listen to Charlie mariano and report. I see his name is associated with 'world music,' ugh! But I will persevere :)

Cheers
Forget the world music stuff that he did. Start with my links and other things from the fifties.

Frogman, Charlie Mariano is one of those musicians, I saw out of the corner my eye; meaning he was around, but I just didn't see him. I also discovered what we wont discuss, in consideration of Rok's sensitivities.

Good "West Coast" jazz is something I'm trying hard to acquire. All the records I had have long gone, and it was something that came and went. I recall me and another aficionado going to movies just to hear the soundtracks; that's where the very best examples of West Coast jazz appeared, as well as TV backgrounds. The movies were so forgettable that I've forgotten them. Maybe you remember some good West Coast jazz?

Enjoy the music.
I am going to move to modern jazz, only 30 years ago. Jack Dejohnette's
"Album Album" from 1984. Great from start to finish. I was even dancing around Rok. Not a pretty sight.

Frankly, I had not listened to this lost gem since I upgraded my system about 5 years ago. Kind of a eye opener.
What ever happened to John Purcell?
Charlie mariano -- Why have I not heard of this guy before?? The difference between his 'Darn that Dream' and the one by Dexter Gordon is, one was alto, the other tenor. 'Chloe' was first rate also. Mariano certainly belongs among the top tier players, so why is he an unknown?

Mariano's take on Beethoven's pathetique was astounding! I loved that. Esp being a big LvB fan. I wonder why Jazz guys don't mine classical stuff more. A lot of great melodies there.

I am going to order 'Charlie Mariano Plays'. Done in 1955.

Thanks for bringing Charlie to light.

Cheers

I have a few music questions for later.
Acman3:
I have Album Album on lp. But I have not played Lps since around 1987. So, all memory of it is gone. I will look for it on CD. I once thought I had replaced all my good Jazz lps with CDs, but I am learning everyday that I have not.
Dancing around? I would hate for video of me when I am listening to be shown. That's the best part of this game.

I hae nothing by Purcell. Not even on my World Saxophone Quartet Discs. He played with a lot of big time people.

Cheers
Rok, I am hesitant to say, you will love. It is not a safe choice, but it has been one of my favorites, and is a classic. After starting to listen to jazz from strictly rock, by way of Metheny, I picked up an ECM sampler and "forced" myself to understand what was going on. I picked this recording up at this time and fell in love with it.

If you think about it, it is actually easier, as a young man listening to Zeppelin, to understand free jazz and hard bop than structured classic jazz.
Rok, check out Elvin Jones' album "Dear John C." featuring Charlie Mariano. Absolutely killer album from 1965 in a more modern bag; one of my very favorite records. There are some cuts on Youtube, but I don't seem to be ale to download them. This record shows Mariano at his absolute peak, IMO; before he moved in a completely different direction.
You are correct he is a great player. Awesome tone and phrasing.
I noticed two things from what I have been able to read. He didn't seem to record a lot as leader and then not with the major labels.

The second thing is, he is called underrated, invisible, under the radar etc.... on a lot of reviews. I don't understand that at all. You can't be this good, and invisible an entire career.

I did listen to Dear John C on youtube. I will try him out. 'Boston All Stars' or 'Charlie Mariano Plays'. both seem to be from his best period.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers
**** Whatever happened to John Purcell?****

Oh man, Acman3! One of the most interesting, and also sad, stories in all of NYC-music-scene lore. I knew John peripherally due to mutual acquaintances and run-ins at various music-industry events. He was (is?) a respected jazz woodwind multi-instrumentalist with a reputation for being a real character with ideas that some considered truly off-beat. He also, sadly, has mental health problems and over the last several years has spent periods of times being institutionalized. A lot of John's controversial ideas have a great many parallels to what audiophiles go through. I have always felt that this aspect of being an instrumentalist has many parallels with audiophilia. You may find this story interesting; and my apology to anyone who finds this too much of a departure from the subject of this thread:

John believed (believes) that anything, and I mean ANYTHING, that you
do to an instrument, no matter how minute and seemingly unimportant, will have an effect on the sound produced by the instrument; that it's all about resonance. Sound familiar? While he was ridiculed by some players for some of these ideas (not I), others thought of him as a kind of genius. If you look at the credits on some of David Sanborn's records from the 90's, you will see John credited as "sound consultant"; Sanborn's sound, that is. I don't mean to bore you with this, but this is a wild experience that I had that was related to this:

There is a well-known instrument repair/set-up man in NYC who, for many years was David Sanborn's repairman. Other saxophone players knew that Mondays and Tuesdays were blocked out for David Sanborn, and it would be almost possible to get to see him on those days. Sanborn is known for being obsessive about the set-up of his instrument, and actually had this technician on retainer so that he could have him service his instruments whenever he wanted. I also use this same technician. One day, after a rehearsal, I needed to have an emergency repair done before the performance later that evening. Even though it was Tuesday, I called him and asked if he could squeeze me in. I got very lucky, as Sanborn and Purcell (who Sanborn always brought along as "consultant") had just stepped out for lunch. I ran to the repair shop and all of Sanborn's gear was there. Here is where it gets good, and how it relates to what audiophiles agonize over concerning tweaks, and wether they make an audible difference or not. Keep in mind that a saxophone is a mechanical instrument with many keys, each operated by a small metal needle spring, not much larger than a sewing needle (hence the name).

I will never forget this: On the technician's workbench were three cork pieces each about six inches square. Two of the cork squares were packed with many springs stuck in them. Off to one side was a third cork square with a single, lone spring stuck in it. I looked at the technician, and he smiled and I immediately knew: THAT WAS THE ONE! That was the one that sounded best.

The last I heard about John Purcell was from a colleague who told me that John had been spotted at an intersection on the Upper West Side of NYC screaming at traffic as it went by. Sad indeed.
" I also discovered what we wont discuss, in consideration of Rok's sensitivities."

hahahahah I didn't know I had any of those.
Discuss, please.
Orpheus, as you know, lot's of great West Coast Jazz available. We can probably skip over the usual known suspects like the Birth Of The Cool sessions, Brubeck/Desmond, Mulligan, Getz, Chet Baker, etc. as there are a lot of other really great and lesser known examples. Here's a couple of great "under the radar players", some of these records are hard to find but worth looking for as well as others from these guys:

One of my favorite records in this style:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAhASX_FO5k&feature=relmfu

And two forgotten great saxophone players:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf5C946sdCU

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jWjGcf9kkj4

Frogman, you were absolutely correct in assuming we could skip over the usual suspects. That first LP led me to a gold mine. Curtis Counce, Shelly Manne, Andre Previn, Bud Shank, Jimmy Giuffre, are all proponents of the West Coast jazz that I'm seeking. I can track each one of them during that time, and add to my West Coast collection.

Charlie Parker's spell was cast too strong over jazz in the 50's, and there was entirely too much imitation; while those on the West Coast were just doing their thing. This music is for "being cool", laid back and just enjoy listening. Thank you much.

Enjoy the music.
Taken from Amazon.

"The wire is thin and stretched tight between two poles. On one end is everything known – the safe sounds, the expected chords resolving in expected ways. On the far end is something more elusive – the magic realm where jazz becomes what the critic Whitney Balliett once called β€œthe sound of surprise.”

This little bit of nonsense was written by a critic writing about Wayne Shorter's new CD, 'Without A Net'.
Surprised Ideed!!

And he WAS such a good player. But I guess sooner or later you gotta go with the flow, if you wanna make a living playing Jazz. Rubalcaba is a partner in this crime.

Also mention in the notes was a group called 'Imani Winds'. I checked them out, and they seem to be something I will like. They get into some classical, Ravel. Also Piazzolla and Mongo Santamari.(afro blue).

I am sure The Frogman and O-10 will love the Shorter Disc.

I'm glad I got my JuJU, Speak No Evil and Etcetera.

Cheers

Rok, as I stated on an earlier post, if I'm not "resonant" to the music being played, it sounds like noise. It's for sure I'm not resonant to that music, but this is joke isn't it.

Enjoy the music

In an earlier post I stated that Charlie Parker's spell was cast too strong over jazz in the 50's. While that was true, it was impossible not to come under the "Bird's" spell. He played jazz in so many different ways that they couldn't be classified. I'm going to give you one example of the "Bird", that you should have in your collection, and be thankful that it's available.

"Charlie Parker with Strings: The Master Takes", this music is so beautiful, that it doesn't matter what genre your musical preference falls in, you'll like this.

Enjoy the music.

Rok, the definition of "West Coast" jazz is very elusive. That's because the same musicians also played East Coast, as well as "No Coast" jazz. It's kind of like "bouillabaise", you have to try a spoonful. No description can be quite appropriate, and to further complicate the matter, it had a short life span. Fortunately, there's a lot on "You tube", and Amazon has it, which means it's still available. I'll post the best examples I can find so that everyone will be able to recognize "West Coast".

Frogman, since you're an aficionado of West Coast jazz, I would appreciate it if you posted your best examples of West Coast.

Enjoy the music.
Bill Parcells, the great NY Giants and Dallas Cowboys pro football coach, once said: You Are, What Your Record Says You Are. Same in Music. If no one has heard of you, there is a reason why.

Cheers

Jimmy giuffre opening for jazz on a summers day is my best example of West coast jazz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfLsEH4csQ4

Chico Hamiltons "Topsy" is another good one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fE73sAZxlE

Now you're an aficionado of West Coast jazz.

Enjoy the music.
For the sake of Orpheus's thread, let's just say, I am struggling with the football/music analogy, however I do agree Bill Parcells was a great coach.

If the masses don't get it, it's bad? We will have to agree to disagree on some things, or we will have to keep fighting the same battles.

Goofyfoot, I for one, would like to see your Ellington list, understanding how difficult that would be, if your willing.
I forgot to say thanks to Frogman for his awesome answer to my John Purcell question. Hopefully Mr. Purcell will get the help he needs.
Acman3, I have empathy for all human beings, especially musicians, and I hope your friend Mr. John Purcell gets better.
Frogman, thanks for the info on John Purcell. I knew him from the Mt. Vernon public school system. He was a few grades ahead of me so it's not as if we socialized, but he was someone who other students looked up to as a style maker. When I was in 6th grade I was in a group that took part in a local talent contest. My band performed "Chattanooga Choo-choo" and took fifth place while Purcell's group did "Summertime" and took first. After Denzel, John is the most artistically talented person of that generation to come out of Mt. Vernon.
"If the masses don't get it, it's bad"

Actually, that's not far from the truth. The masses decide most things. They decide what music is available for purchase. What cars we can buy etc....

Lets just pose a theoretical situation. Who is the best Jazz sax player? This is just to make a point, ok. Some would say Cannonball, some would say Coltrane, some might say Sonny Rollins, Charlie Parker,etc........ NO ONE would say, Charlie Mariano. Except, maybe the Frogman.

That's why Coach Parcells statement is applicable. Some questions are decided for us. There really is no room for 'real' argument.

Cheers
Acman3 and Onhwy61, you are welcome.
I would go with "Sonny", the masses would say "Kenny".

I rest my case.
"I would go with "Sonny", the masses would say "Kenny".

Not, the JAZZ Masses!! hahahahahaha

Cheers

Sonny is a great choice.
Orpheus10, as you point out West Coast Jazz is difficult to define. But, it does have some general defining characteristics. It can be differentiated from East Coast Jazz and other styles by the fact that West Coast players tended to play with a "cooler" approach; generally speaking, with a lighter and softer tone. There was an emphasis on the composition and arrangements as opposed to the improvisation; and sometimes classical music compositional techniques such as fugues were part of the mix. The fact that there was great demand for arrangers in Hollywood surely helped some of these stay employed.

I already mentioned one of my favorite recordings in this style (the Previn/ Shorty Rogers). I mentioned that one because it is lesser known, as well as being a favorite. I am sure you already now some of these, but a few other favorites are:

Miles Davis "Birth Of The Cool". The title says it all. What can be said about this recording that hasn't already be said. Other than to note that this session is really considered a Gil Evans session; which further highlights the clout that the arranger had.

Dave Brubeck "Time Out". Good example of the use of classical techniques.

Paul Demond/ Gerry Mulligan "Two Of A Mind"

Zoot Sims "Quartets"

"Shelly Manne And His Men Play Peter Gunn" Henry Mancini arranger

"Art Pepper + Eleven"

Vince Guaraldi "Charlie Brown Suite" No kidding, one of my favorites which always puts a smile in my face.

Enjoy.