pjw &acman3
As acman3 stated the vol. 1 Shelly Manne Live At The Blackhawk has a different soundstage. I listened to vol. 4 (which has the same soundstage as vol.s 2&3) and vol.1 .
The difference in vol . 1's soundstage is: the drums are now positioned center stage and to the rear of the speakers giving the music the center fill . The bass is positioned just right of the left speaker and the sax , piano and trumpet are in the same positions as described for vol. 2 &3.
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pjw
I found a copy of vol. 5 S Manne Live at The Blackhawk , songs not originally released,bought it and it's on the way.
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frogman
I agreed with your observations on the East Coast/West Coast discussion but have a question concerning your example of Art Pepper as a poor sight reader. Having read his autobiography ,and numerous articles over the years I never saw anything alluding to this fact. Since he performed in Kenton's BB and also Buddy Rich's band in the 60's I would think he would have to be a good sight reader, Just wondering where you read this.
I am listening to versions of "Everything Happens To Me" and will get back to you with observations.
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pjw & acman3
Thanks for the Big Band posts-R Hargrove & Gerald Wilson . We should post more BB clips- I will when I have more time.
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pjw
After listening to all 3 G Baker cuts I think he meshes well with Frisell and Haden. But he still sounds to me more like a rock drummer than a jazz drummer. But it fits because Frisell is not a strict jazz guitarist and has a lot of rock sensibility in his playing.Baker really is very talented but leans too much towards rock style for me.
BTW- did you know Baker was a long time heroin addict. Don't know if he's clean now.
frogman mentioned Charlie Watts -another rock drummer who made some jazz cds . I bought several (still own one) but was disappointed. I love Watts as the drummer for the Rolling Stones but jazz chops he is lacking. As frogman said he was saved by his sidemen.
BTW- I bought the Stan Getz bio you recommended . It's great and gives an excelllent portrait of the "swing" era which he was involved in. I did not know how popular he was back in the late 40's early 50's. . And sadly an alcoholic and drug addict before he turned 20.
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pjw
Enjoyed your Lou Donaldson story. I have spoken to band members between sets on occasion but only in the audience, not backstage. Nice to hear how friendly Lou was to you. I would have loved to have sat and talked boxing with him , I'm a big fan.
The credit on that Basie cut goes to acman3 , not me.
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pryso Thanks for the BB clips. I have the Monk at Town Hall on vinyl but not the other and will purchase a copy. Actually I will check my inventory first I may have that Monk title on cd. I had a G Mulligan Concert Band lp and stupidly sold it. I hope his BB stuff is still available. Ihave that G Evans and "Into The Hot" another excellent Evans lp form that period. Here are 2 I don't have and should: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TazGJWKNnow http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JGoFjl_8Pbw |
frogman
Thanks your explanation on Pepper makes sense. The guy was there and observed him . Musicians who play together know the strong points and weakness of others around them.
i wanted to weigh in on the 2 cuts of "Everthing Happens To Me" East Coast /West Coast. I would also like your input. The obvious main difference is the tone of Desmond vs. Woods. Desmond has a much lighter tone giving a lighter texture to the music. Also the Desmond cut is spare in instrumentation with no piano and no comping accompaning the soloist. This leaves the sound quieter.
The arrangement of the head intro is different.Desmond takes the first a section ,then is backed by Elliot in the second A section. Then Elliiot takes the B section and the closing A section alone .
Woods make an opening statement before stating the theme alone .
Another difference I perceived was Desmond playing seems to stick to no more than eighth notes which gives his solo a different feel than Woods who I think at certain times uses sixteenth notes? This gives Desmonds solo a more relaxed feel I think.
Just wondering what you thought of my impressions.
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pjw
James Carter cuts you posted: He blows the roof off on that first cut. I like the soprano cut also reminds me of Coltrane a little.
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frogman
Thanks for your input and explanation.
I actually found the Bill Cosby video recently by chance on youtube. It's a riot !!
And this comes from a person who has never been a fan of Cosby at any time. It's a hilarious bit !!
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pjw
I can't believe hoe the price of John Park's lp "if Winter Comes " has gone up in price. All cuts posted by frogman by Park are from that lp. Ip has a nice closely miked warm sound from all players and of course John shines on his solos.
I was wondering if there are recordings with Park from his time with S Kenton . I saw some credits listed on Allmusic.com link so I may have to research that.
I have one J Pelt cd "Soul" and intend to get others.Any recommendations?
I have been a fan of Larry Willis for quite a while . Those cuts are all new to me though. I will post some from him when I have time.
That concert sounds like it will be a good one.
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frogmanYou are right Malmsteen us not in Becks league. Just a lot of noise.Enjoyed your post with Beck backing the singer. She has a great voice. His backing and solo are tasteful.
I've been a fan since 1970 when I introduced his music to all my friends. His 2 jazz fusion albums in 70's were my introduction and transition to jazz. Regarding his playing with Tai posted by pjw of course she is not in his league but who is? He gets more tone and sound out of a guitar than anyone.
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pjw
I liked the vid with Tai playing with H Hancock. I thought she fit into the group context well. A nice funk bass she laid down. The music reminded me of Herbie's 70's Headhunters/ Thrust groups. Herbies solo was amazing as always. I don't know credentials of the poster who complained about her but maybe he is a pro musician. If so Like frogman, musicians hear differently than us non-musicians and can be more critical I guess.
You recently posted L Willis . Are you familiar with his output on Mapleshade records.He cut a lot of good sessions with them. I can post if found on youtube.
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pjwI also bought the Byrd's live album a long time ago just for the "Eight Miles High" cut. I had read about the modal influence in a McGuinn interview .Here's another version wgere sax player sounds very Coltranish IMO. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a4vPRkMWxrw |
pjwThat KOB influence on D Allman is amazing!It shows the far reaching influence many jazz greats had on other genres of music. Big fan of original Allman Bros. I saw them early 70's fo r $2.00 per ticket at Stony Brook University. They were tightAnd stole the show. In my top 5 for rock concerts. My favorite cut: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UZE9Elp6uAE |
geoffkait
The great British free jazz pianist Keith Tippett plays piano on Court of the Crimson King and also the second King Crimson disc.
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pjw
Correct Sonny Rollins is the man!! He is most certainly relevant to his many legion of fans and fellow musicians who have played with him since the late 1940's. Someone Saying he is not relevant is a dumb way of saying they don't like him.
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pjw
big fan of prog rock groups King Crimson, Genesis ( with Peter Gabriel not the later version), Matching Mole, National Health, etc. , but the best jazz-rock group from that time was Soft Machine,IMO. They were all a transition period for me until I went over to listening to jazz 75-90% of the time. Still own all my lps .
As acman stated recently I tired of rock , especially the drumming. There was a good NYC radio station back then that played classic and contemporary jazz that I listened to all the time.
Beck is my favorite ROCK guitarist. The 1st Jeff Beck cut is a classic . Did not care for the style of the second cut . I like the 3 song clip on youtube from the North Sea Festival (tried to post couldn't copy).
Thanks for mentioning Larry Coryell. I knew he passed from a thread sombody on Agon posted when it happended. Just a couple of members posted the thread I thought he would receive more attention. Did you know he was in the Guitar Trio with McLaughlin & Paco and was replaced by DiMeola due to drug problems? I don't think he cut any cd's but htere might be a dvd of that group.
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orpheus10 Great posts on Fela Kuti songs. I would have posted him myself but did not think anyone would know him. I followed his career from late 70's , own a dozen of his lps. IMO the most important artist from the african peninsula . His music was not only was rooted with strong african rhythms but he studied here and spoke of Sly Stone and Miles as influences. His music was comlex but accesible, had great solos but made you want to get up and dance. The cut you posted was a little more out to my ears than anything he did but still excellent.. On top of everything were anti-government lyrics in a country where it was very risky to do that. Long live Fela Kuti's music!! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fTBtuh8kP0g http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yI6ZZsCElTo |
alex
Thanks for the Paco link. I already bought the Paco cd w/coryell& mcLaughlin and i also found a video of another concert with them also. |
orpheus10 &alexatpos
Thanks for the Freddie Roach posts. I give the nod to the "Heavy Soul" album with Ike Quebec.I just ordered a copy. I really like his playing I have several more titles from his Blue Note recordings. Did not know he died early 60's . Another excellent talent cut short.
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orpheus10 Another Mingus you might like : "The Great Concert of Charles Mingus" April 1964 live album from Paris concert. Extended cuts , great lineup including Dolphy, J Byard, Clifford Jordan D annie Richmond.I have the double lp it's available on cd. The Richard Wyands music cut you posted didn't work could you post it again? I feel the same as you Wyands is a sideman on so many of my collection who is deserving of wider recognition. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1YgVWoU9Nvs |
alex
Thanks for the heads up on more Ike Quebec!! I may buy that Jimmy Smith it's a 2-fer -the only J Smith I own is "The Sermon" from that period... could use more.
The cut with the singer D Greene is excellent- never heard of her .
The "imagination" cut you listed is that a compilation from Blue Note? I could not find a listing under I Quebec's name.
I might go for the 45rpm "Soul Samba" .It's pricey but I have numerous other B Note 45rpm reissues and the sound quality is great.
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orpheus10
Yes That BREMEN Mingus concert you posted is the same group that made that 1964 European tour. ThAT Bremen concert and the Cornell 1964 show both have Johnny Coles on trumpet whereas the Great Concert of Charles Mingus is minus Coles who became ill but might have better sound than Cornell 1964 based on the review on amazon. So take your pick or get all of them. the Cornell concert and Bremen show are finds for me and I will buy them for my collection.
This is last time Mingus would play with Dolphy as he passed away 3 months later.
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Alex
Very funny film clip |
pjw
Yes I have that Rollins box set purchased just prior to the summer. I thought I mentioned it in previous Rollins discussion(s) but may not have. It' basically all the music from which Rca's "Our Man In Jazz" 3 cuts were previously released. I like the fact there are numerous unreleased cuts from a live date, which is Sonny's preferred format. Also this was his attempt to break free of conventional chord chAnges in musical form and to me is an historic document of music. How successful it was is open to debate. I have listened to several discs other than disc #1and sound quality is fine.
BTW-- I think 2 cuts from original RCA release are presented here with no Editing. |
I like Alex's post of 9/29 and my feelings and sentiment are similar to his. I like his approach & attitude. Case in point: an artist was recently posted for 2nd time. Didn't like the music 1st tim e but gave it another try. It still did not resonate for me but I said nothing . |
frogman
I think this 6 cd set of Rollins was his only recorded attempt to go "outside" and play free jazz?
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pjw& frogman
I own 2 lps by Sonny Rollins recorded at the Vanguard "A Night at The Village Vanguard" , a single lp and "More From The Vanguard" a double lp.In the liner notes it states that "A Night In Tunisia " was recorded the same evening (nov.3 1957) with a different personnel than W Ware and E Jones. Hence maybe the evening set started with Ware and Jones and when personnel shifted he decided to introduce Bailey and La Roca to the audience.
The double lp (also issued by Blue Note) has one cut "I've Got You Under My Skin" with Bailey and LaRoca as sidemen and it states this cut was recorded at the MATINEE PERFORMANCE on Nov. 3 1957 sunday. The other cuts on the 2-fer with Jones and Ware were recorded at the evening performance.
I also own a cd set" Complete Live At the Village Vabguard " which may have more liner notes but I need to locate it.
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frogman & pjw
It seems there is still a bit of a mystery to the Rollins Village Vanguard sessions. The facts are : there were 3 sessions , one afternoon and 2 evening. LaRoca and Bailey played on the afternoon session, Jones and Ware at the evening sessions. My 3 lps and the Rudy Van Gelder cd reissue have 2 tunes from the afternoon session. I found this strange that a set would only consist of 2 tiunes. Didn't make sense.
Now read pjw's bio of LaRoca wherein it is stated that of FIVE recorded tunes at the VV sessions only TWO made it on to records(or cd). So there is ADDITIONAL music from these sessions which appears to have never been published!!
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frogman
No doubt that those alternate takes were probably from the other evening set as t |
frogman
There were 2 sets and they wouldn't play same songs twice in a set. Good perspective by you in that maybe they did have tech problems in 1st set with recording . Would be nice to know back story. I suspect thay tried to record everything so who knows?
Would like to have additional afternoon material if available. |
frogman
At bottom of the "Best live" link there is a #11 which goes to another page. They mentioned E Dolphy Live at Five Spot as well as Turrentines Up at Mintons, both favorites of mine. Also listed Art Peppers Live atThe Vanguard which is also a favorite.
2 not mentioned are Lee Morgan's Live at The Lighthouse" and Shelly Manne's Live at Shellys Manne Hole. I think everyon e has their personal favorites and it's interesting to see their picks. |
Alex
Good choices . Not sure about thawt J Griffin I think it was studio recording, i'll check my copy. A great live Griffin 2-lp is Live in Tokyo .
I also agree with your picks of MJQ, Brubeck , SManne, Chet Baker.
I don't own that Hawkins or Dorham title so can't comment. |
AlexThat Burrell, Green, Kessel clip seemed to be taped from a tv show.Nice to see them all together. Doubt it was issued to the public .I'm also interested in that Kenny Dorham Flamboyan live 1963 date but i looked it up on amazon and it's pricey, cheapest offer was$24 dollars.
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pjw & prysoCan't believe I found 2 Soft Machine fans in the same day.Pjw that box set is a good find it gives you all the significant discs from the 1st incarnation. SM discs before Third are not significant. Bundles and Softs have guitar players and lean a little more towards rock than jazz. I have other SM live discs from this period if your interested let m e know.
I also have discs of Soft Machine Legacy band recorded 10-15 years ago and some live Hugh Hopper discs.BTW-was listening to King Crimson's Discipline last night.
I was a TYA fan but had forgotten about him after the band broke up. Nice cut you posted. Sadly i heard he passed away recently?
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pjw Sorry I did not fully explain myself. I don 't want to sell any o f my SM collection I just mentioned them in case you were interested about information on other SM titles/groups in future. For now you h ave plenty SM to listen to. L et me kno w what you think. Been a SM fan 40+ Years.Alvin Lee was surely a guitar virtuoso who belongs with Jeff, Jimi, Eric, Jimmy Page. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGbi-_vQ2sk |
