You might as well ask if a Hundai is 90% of a Mercedes or an outfit off the rack at Walmart is the same as a coture outfit from Europe. No doubt the rig from China sounds good, the Hundai gets you there and the Walmart garb looks fine. The democratization of premium goods is a fiction that has been promoted by the Costcos of the world. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.....unless of course you find a fly in your soup.
HK,Nigeria,late night programming,clean white teeth in only 2 days,step right up ladies and gentlemen.Its a mad world and always has been,especially now with all the cyber-pretenders.Anytime a wrestler,a weightlifter and an actor can be Governor,you got to figure its best to keep truckin and dont think twice their legit on the other side of the asylum either......
Wait a minute.
This could be interesting.
Not that I'm any fan of you-know-who, but why couldn't
a great design be reverse engineered and sold for close
to its parts only cost (plus slave labor of course).
I doubt if you could reproduce a 27K anything for $500,
but for $2000 or $3000? -Bet you could.
I guess Dweller has issues with Jadis' prices thus his "I am not a fan". Though I have the JOR, I would never pay full price for any other Jadis. I agree with D, if I could get a clined Jadis for say 2-3K I'd buy.
The only way you're going get close to the Jadis sound is use big specially wound transformers which cloners will have a tough time getting heir hands on.
I see real great comments and feedbacks in here. I really apppreciate that.
Althought I still know nothing about other's experience with those "re-eningeered" designs, I see an interesting point here. Would any decent implementation of those "re-engineered" designs amount to anything?
If you happen to look at those listings in eBay, you'd see the parts are actually not so bad. Of course, like Kw6 said, the quality transformers could not be reproduced in those budget-minded imitations. So it's expected to be (several) cuts below the real thing, but could it compare favorably with, say, any decent $2000 preamps out there, simply because it's still fundamentally a great design?
Bartokfan: Forgive my poor communication skills.
"You-know-who" does not refer to noble Jadis but to our "friends" in Hong Kong.
Speaking of "friends", remember the scene in "Mars Attacks!"
when the little people where scampering around with a loudspeaker blurting:
"Don't run, we are your friends!"?
P. S. Some day hope to own Jadis 845 monos...
I have no first hand experience with these designs, but that never seems to stop those who post on these forums, so I will continue to wade in. You can give an amateur musician a Guarnari violin and he will still play in an amateur fashion. A great violinist can coax a beautiful tune from an inexpensive production violin. To analogize further, having the freshest ingredients will not make you a great chef. The art is in how the ingredients are combined.
I think the reliability of these units would be good enough. Tube audio gear is inherently simple stuff. If you buy a kit, and are handy enough to put it together, you can probably also fix a fair amount of what may go wrong down the line.
However, like kw6 states, you'll never get the Jadis transformers. Transformers are by far the most critical piece of a tube component, what one should put their money into, and among the biggest reasons a Jadis is a Jadis. I'll also note that the passive parts appear to be different (the Jadis capacitors, which like the transformers, you'll never get), and I have had enough bad experiences to now understand what a good friend told me, "Jadis voices their equipment, and most people look at some of the cheap parts used, and figure they can make things better via modding it. Not so easy." Indeed. I've paid a pretty penny setting my amp back to stock, and the improvement was more than worth it. The unit using a PCB instead of being hardwired is another thing. I never understood Shelby Cobra and Mustang clones, but they sure are popular with others.
If your only goal is to copy the circuit, it seems like a good deal. I could think of worse things to copy than a Jadis. Why not start there?
Then again, you may have issues with someone blatantly disregarding intellectual property, as it's out and out plagiarism - or, maybe you don't...
Guys Jadis and other gear is pretty overpriced for what you are getting in return.
Check Goldmund super transport costing 9000USd and when you open it you will find unmodified Pioneer player costing 60USD.
Those kits are really inexpensive for what you are getting.
I have Art Audio preamp which retails for 3500USD and when you check what's inside you could probably buy all parts for around 200-300USD.
Preamp sounds really good and even better after modifications that I've done like replacing inexpensive volume controll pot with DACT and rewiring everything with Mundorf wires etc.
All so called High End COs are looking for profit so don't let them fool you.
IU modified my Rega Apollo cd player to the point when it plays really nice and I compare it to Saturn and some other more expensive gear and it looks like I have a winner.
Modifications did not cost me more than 200USD in parts.
When you sale 10 000 players and you have to get parts you will try to save money on everything, few cents here and there will matter.
Desiring to get a decent sound for decent money (aka bang for the buck)I built two of the preamp units from analogmetric.com. I would say they embody the essence of the originals without being direct knockoffs. First I built their version of the Grounded Grid preamp. It had a nice quality sound but lacked a certain richness and low end for my taste. Perhaps nicer for orchestra and some vocals.
I sold the GG board on ebay and started again with the JP200 kit. I have no way to compare to the original, but I am VERY VERY happy with the sound. What impresses me is the richness of the sound and the dimension and detail across the soundstage. A definite upgrade IMO from the GG amp and another manufactured tube preamp from HK that I had been using. It's like my system stepped up to the audio quality I was wanting, and for a minimal investment. I didn't have need to try the Marantz 7 board so I can't comment about that one.
I can't imagine anyone could gripe about the audio results of the JP200, especially after spending less than $400 to give it a try. My two cents.
The Matisse Fantasy clone from DIY Gene is very much worth the $400 or so that it cost. For that price you can still afford to swap in some very pricey output caps and a better pot, my 2 cents.
THE BEST M7 and JP200 clones are from TS LIM of DIVA Audio in Singapore. All hand made and tune by Lim himself. I have both units. Replaced a AUDIO RESEARCH REF 3.
If you are in Melbourne AUSTRALIA, can drop by for a Demo. M7 retails here in Australia at AUD$3999. BOTH DIVAs are 2 box version, ie power supply is separated. call KC AUDIO for demo.