Jadis Fidelity


Somebody can tell me we do not see too many Jadis product on Audiogon? What do I have to expect(buy or sell) for a Jadis 100 (E34 Tubes) ? Do Jadis people keep their gears longer?
odiomuse

Showing 10 responses by rcprince

The above posts are all accurate. I've owned my pair of Jadis JA80s for about 9 years and my JP80 about 7 or 8, and I can say I've heard many pieces of equipment in my system both before and after buying them that will do one thing or another better than these pieces, but none of which sounded as musically "right" as the Jadis equipment. I stretched my budget each time I bought them, and I haven't regretted it at all. They haven't been completely trouble free, they roll the frequency extremes a little (I've had some mods done to improve that), and they don't give you those instant on/off dynamics you can get from other equipment, but they have clearly been designed by a music lover to sound like what you hear in a concert hall in real life and have a naturalness and continuousness to their sound that makes it easier to imagine you're listening to the original recorded event (as opposed to the master tape). Now if only I could find a catche of MO Valve KT88s and Telefunkens to retube them for the next 20 years....
Oh, by the way, Odiomuse, the JA100s really were designed to run with KT90 tubes; that's the tube for which their transformer was optimized. If you want to use EL34s, as I think you were saying, you might want to look for a used pair of JA80s, which I think sound best with NOS KT88s but which also sound excellent with the EL34s. You may lose a little power with the 80s (I think they get about 40-50 watts with the EL34s), but not that much. Good luck!
Odiomuse, as you can see from these posts, the cosmetics of the Jadis equipment are a not insignificant part of their appeal! I admit it too; I've been tempted by the similarly natural sound of the Lamm tubed amps, but I've resisted in part (other than the price) because they don't look anywhere near as nice as the Jadis. I've been bedeviled by fingerprints and some minor discoloring on the gold plated surfaces, so I'd like to thank the above posters for the suggestions. My wife had suggested that, if I'd gotten them new, maybe some of her clear coat nail polish would protect the gold finish, but I didn't have the guts to try that, and she's not a chemist. Any of you try it?
I replaced a pair of ARC Classic 150s with my JA80s, and an SP-11 MkII with a JPL and then the JP80, and have heard most of ARC's current amplifiers and preamps, so I'll try to give you my thoughts. The ARC equipment is excellent, no question about it, some of the best-designed tube equipment out there, but to me has always been on the bright side, sounding just a little "bleached out" in its harmonic presentation compared to the Jadis equipment, which is fuller and richer harmonically; it is closer to solid state sound (and, many would argue, without too much protest from me, neutrality) than the Jadis equipment--check out Detlof's and my first posts on this. The ARC equipment probably has better transient response, and perhaps more transparency due to its brighter tonal balance (here I can't comment on the new KT90-based amps, only on the older design), but I still feel the Jadis reproduces music more like real music in a real acoustic than the ARC equipment. Best example I can give--when I got a Vendetta phono stage back around 1991 or 92, I decided to replace my SP 11 with an ARC LS2 line stage, as I no longer needed the SP 11's phono stage and I figured the LS2 would sound better than the older model. I went to my dealer, and listened to the LS2 at length; it had tremendous detail, speed, I could hear everything on the recording, easily an improvement on my SP 11. I was set to buy it, but the dealer also had a Jadis JPL on display, for far more money, even as a demo, and I asked to listen to it. Within 5 minutes I knew I was going to blow my budget and get the Jadis. The ARC appealed to my mind, the Jadis to my heart and soul. Sounds corny, but that's the best way I can describe it. You should try to give both an audition if you can-- the differences will be plain, I think, and you can decide which sound really is what you are looking for.
Detlof, you will probably be VERY happy with the Aesthetix, it is one of the few units I have heard which I would put on the same plane as the Jadis equipment and that I would consider as a replacement if I had the money, the space and the inclination. It will probably be a somewhat different presentation, as I think it is a no feedback unit, so it may be a bit more vivid but perhaps with a little less depth of soundstage (we're not talking a big difference in this respect). It does have that musicality and realism that I like in the Jadis. Cwlondon, actually, I have never been as impressed with the Defy 7, at least in its first two marks, as the JA80s. There was more brute power, but it clearly lacked the finesse, delicacy and intangibles that you got from the JA80s as well as the JA30s and JA200s, and the increased power still didn't bring you much better bass control. Plus, you could only run it with 6550s, at least then, and to my ears that is the least desirable tube I've used in the JA80s, as far as sonics go (they do control the bass better, but give up some of the midrange magic). I've heard that the later marks of the Defy might be closer to the sound of the monoblocks, but haven't made that comparison, and my setup requires I use monoblocks; personally, I have not heard a stereo amp which sounds better than its monoblock counterpart (excluding a bridged stereo amp used as a monoblock, which is another story). Also, my comments only relate to the earlier versions of the Jadis amps, not the newer versions which use KT90s, which may sound different. Since I use both the JP80 preamp and the JA80s, and before used the JPL first with the ARC Classic 150s and then with the JA80s, I do believe that there is a good synergy between the Jadis equipment (as I usually find between the equipment of any fine manufacturer) that leads to an overall greater musicality, although it is certainly possible to mix and match to your taste. As far as cables go, Siltech works very well with Jadis; I use a cable called Full Spectrum, which is no longer made, so it's not much help to you, but is very revealing and slightly sweet in the highs, a good match for this equipment. I'm trying out some NBS Monitor Zero tonight which I just bought; I'm pretty sure that will work well, and in the past I've found good Purist Audio and Kimber silver cables to work well with Jadis equipment. The better and more neutral the interconnect and speaker cables, the more you'll be able to appreciate the special qualities these components possess. Hope this helps a little; good luck in your search.
Cwlondon, in looking at the cables I mentioned to you, I realized they're all kinda (some might say outrageously) expensive. I should note that Trelja has been using some affordable silver cables with his Jadis with which he is pleased, and that in the past I have used both Dunlavy and Sonoran speaker cables with the JA80s with good results. Gerrym5, I was interested by your post, I had gotten a separate inquiry about the IO and had relayed pretty much the same thoughts about it as you noted. Be careful before you get the JA500s--they are a different beast from the other Jadis older style amps. They run in ultralinear, rather than Class A (they can be factory adjusted to run class A, reducing the power to 225 watts), and as I recall are not auto biasing and only use the 6550 tubes (although I'm sure that Jadis could adjust the bias to take other types of tubes). Still sound excellent, but as I noted above with the Defy, I think they give away a little of the finesse and delicacy of the other Jadis mono amps. But there are times I'd like that extra power in reserve...
Detlof, now you've GOT to let us know how the IO compares. I think Gerrym5's description of the differences is a good one, based off what I've heard. Still not convinced to give up the Jadis, though--the mods Andy Bouwman's made to mine have made it sound even better, the IO has an awful lot of tubes, and I too have a taste for NOS Telefunkens, it does take up more space and I'm low on funds for audio application. Hope you're right about the new plasma tweeters not poisoning you to death!
So many questions....Cwlondon, the JA200s, and the more recent versions, the JA250s are the amps that will give you better bass with the rest of the Jadis sound we're all extolling. Again, haven't heard the 250s with their KT90s (probably a leaner sound than EL34s or KT88s), but I have heard JA200s with NOS KT88s and they are beautiful. Actually, though, I think the JA80s sound slightly better than the higher powered ones, just a personal opinion. Their bass is actually pretty good down to about 40-50 hz (I've never heard an amp better at reproducing a cello), it's below that they run out of steam and control. I've solved the problem by getting a 4-piece speaker system where I can use the 80s above the bass and a solid state amp (Meitners, which tonally are a decent match for the 80s) for the bass, although I wish the cut-off was at a lower frequency. As far as Jadis preamps go, Detlof is right, the JP200MC is the best full feature preamp I've ever heard, but its price is astronomical and it is a four-chasis design. They have a new model, the JP800, which is priced like the top of the line but I haven't heard it. The JP80MC, which I use, gives you most of the performance of the 200 and a great phono stage (it looks like the JPS2 Trelja refers to in the featured auctions--that's the line stage only version of the JP80). I had a problem with my preamp for a while recently (related to a mod, not Jadis), so had to make due with other preamps for a while, and can report that the top of the line VAC preamp works well with it and (here's a surprise) so did the new Innersound phono and line stages (my preamp runs into a solid state crossover now, which then goes to the amps; that may be part of the reason it worked so well, as I think Detlof's post is essentially correct, as a general rule). Still prefer the JP80 over both of them, but that Innersound was a shocker! And while I haven't heard them in my system, I think that the Herron and the Aesthetix units would also work well with Jadis amps, as they both were designed for music lovers. Still think that it's better not to mix and match unless you've tried the combination; I think Gerrym5 has with the Aesthetix, though, and he obviously liked it enough to buy it. Gerrym5, thanks for your offer, I'll contact you later.
Detlof, this definitely sounds like a right brain/left brain situation! Any way you can use the same cables on each, or is the I/O not one with the separate volume controls? Otherwise, I'd suggest breaking in the cables a bit more and letting the I/O cook a few days and seeing if that makes a difference, it sure does with my JP80. I share your ambivalence, as I've heard the I/O on a few occasions and have thought that it is a piece that can retrieve more information than the Jadis without losing that elusive magic. My interest is more detached, though, as I'm really not in the market to replace my preamp, for space and logistical reasons (a separate phono stage means another line level input, and I don't have one available). On the reliability issue, since I may have touched on it in an earlier post, I will note to all of you that my few problems with my Jadis have stemmed from modifications made to it (mine was one of the early units in which Da Hong put Cardas wiring in the MC stage, and it had some RF problems as a result that fortunately Victor Goldstein was able to fix), not the stock unit.
Cwlondon, I don't have any experience with the transport other than having heard it in a gentleman's system once, for one CD (I was buying some records from him, so we were listening to vinyl), so I'll pass other than to say that it looks great, doesn't it, and that it sounded a little leaner than my Forsell (but everything else I've heard also sounds leaner than that unit, so no help there). The DAC was originally designed by Jerry Ozment, whose Audio Logic DAC I own, so unless it has radically changed from what I've heard a few years ago I'd say it has a very musical quality and is very nice to listen to. I liked the Audio Logic better, though, and it was much less expensive, just not as gorgeous. Hope others have more, and more recent, experience with these units to help you.