Jadis amps and pre-amps still competitive?


How does Jadis amps (Defy7, JA 200, ect.) and pre-amps (JPL MK2, 80 MC), compare with the more popular amps of today from VTL, LAMM, and Audio Research. You don't hear much about them anymore. I remember that they were highly regarded when Mr. Victor Goldstein was the importer.
jazz_nut
Performance wise they are excellent.

Price may not be competitive (imported, heavy weight gear with duty and a middle man) but workmanship and musicality have always been their strong suit and I suspect they are equal or better than the last time I auditioned them.

Like much of the USA heavy duty tube gear, maintenance and repairs are more frequent and expensive than state of the art transistor.

That could be a factor, especially this time of year and with USA economy being a bit sluggish.
The reason you haven't heard about Jadis for awhile is that they have not had an importer for many years, ever since Viktor Goldstein ceased bringing them into the US. Viktor does have a stash of parts, however, and the amps are due back before long. The price has increased due to the exchange rate, but that's true of everything made in Europe.
Still competitive in terms of sonic performance and proud of ownership, but entry ticket is higher than other competitive companies as those you mentioned.

Fernando
Competitive? Yes, very. Frank Garbe took over distribution of Jadis in the mid 90's and didn't advertise/market in the same fashion that Victor had. It's a little sad because the 200's are one of the best sounding amplifiers out there, in my humble opinion.

On a side note, Victor used to have a technician named DaHong that would fly to your location and perform factory mods to Jadis gear, (it wasn't cheap). What ever happened to DaHong?
I just dusted off and retubed my Jadis Orchestra Reference two weeks ago with a quad of JJ E34L tubes. The stock tubes are Ei KT90.

Oh my goodness! With the front end and cables that I didn't have a few years ago, the sound through my Coincidents was better than my Granites or AtmaSpheres. I mean, it was incredible. The notes were more tonally right than I have ever heard. It was perfect!
Trelja: A friend here also applied some bias adjustment to his DA5 amps following Jadis instructions. I am not a tube expert (my friend is), but I remember he placed the bias just in the upper limit for the EL34 and sound immproved a lot for the good.

Fernando
Flg2001, the DA5 is not autobias? I always thought that outside of the Orchestra and Orchestra Reference were autobias.

Although, I may know what you are talking about. I used to read that the JA200 had some kind of adjustment for "bias" on the transformer, which technicians would set based on the voltage coming out of your wall (whether it was 115V or 120V).

Nevertheless, as you said, I'm sure the amp sounded good!
Trelja: I have my weekly audio-buddies meeting and will get the specifics for you.

Fernando
I have to echo what Trelja said. I am the lucky new owner of Trelja's Jadis Orchestra Reference in a small office sytem. It has run about 160 hours on the new JJ EL 34 tubes and sounds better and better every day. Despite the accompanying equipment not being of the caliber of my main rig at home, it has a superbly pleasing tone and timbre, and as Trelja has said, the sound is tonally right and it certainly is a match for the much more expensive tube amps.
A wonderful-sounding amp. Of course, the big negative, and the only one, is the biasing issue, which, I suspect, may cost Jadis sales of this glorious piece of equipment.Obviously, it can be done, but is a pain.
Fernando, not Jadis related, but if we are talking of biasing in general, I have always found that my preference is strongly towards running tubes at the higher end of a manufacturer's biasing recommendations. To my ears, the sound takes on a warmer, richer tone. This is but one man's opinion.

It will be interesting to hear what your friend says. Though, the DA5 is the power amp section of the DA30 integrated, which I remember both being autobias.

And, Denis, despite my preference, as you saw in the pictures, I biased your amp dead on at 110 mV (Jadis recommendations: 95 - 120 mV, preferably 110 mv).
I agree with the posts above. The Jadis sound is extraordinarily like live music, but their equipment is expensive. I still have not heard a preamp I like better than my JP200, and the JP80 I owned for years was more than competitive with the Lamm L2, which is the next best line stage I've heard at length (plus you get a world-class phono stage as well). The amplifiers may give up a little in the frequency extremes to other designs (having owned JA80s for over 10 years, I could recognize their weaknesses), but they get the midrange right in a way few amplifiers I've heard do.

Joe, it's my understanding that the Jadis equipment, even with autobias, kind of ran tubes at or close to their limits (one reason my JA80s ate up most 6550 and EL-34 tubes I used in them); that could be one reason they sound so good.
Hi to you.If I could permit myself to comment on some technical info about Jadis products.

The Jadis Orchestra and Orchestra Reference Integraded Amps.,the Jadis DA-5,DA-8 and the DA-7 Amps. are ALL classe A/B Amplification NOT classe A and are NOT AUTO-BIAS.

The Jadis DA-30, DA-50 and DA-60 Integraded Amps.,
The Jadis JA-30/JA-50, JA-80/JA-100, JA-200/JA-250, JA-500 and the JA-800 are ALL classe A Amplification and AUTO-BIAS. Regards.
Pierre, thank you for the clarification.

As you can see, Russ (Rcprince) and I are two of the bigger fans of Jadis here on Audiogon. Will you be reestablishing a dealer network in the USA? And, if so, we are in the Northeast (he in NYC and me in Philadelphia), is there any plans for a dealership in this region?

Thank you,
Joe

Pierre Gabriel Acoustic Inc, Signs US Distribution agreement with Jadis Electronics of Villedubert,France.

Pierre Gabriel Acoustic Inc. is pleased and honoured to announce they have acquired exclusive distribution rights to Jadis Electronics in the USA.

Jadis Electronics of Villedubert, France is a manufacturer of renowned, High End tube based electronics.
They offer a wide product line that meet tube enthusiast’s needs around the world.

Pierre Gabriel Acoustic Inc has been in business since 1990 and is a manufacture / distributor of its own line of high end loudspeakers and silver wire interconnects.

We also have years of exclusive distribution rights in Canada for “Jadis” and “The Gryphon” lines of electronics.

We have recently relocated to a more spacious working environment to accommodate this new distribution agreement.

Our future goal and commitment is to setup agreements with
reputable High End audio retailers across the US to
distribute the Jadis line of products.

This will insure product availability and service to all present and future Jadis owners across the US.

In recent years, we have heard from many, that this product was in much demand but hard to evaluate without being seen nor heard.

We look forward to changing this situation and fulfilling
everyone’s Jadis requirements.

For further details, please contact :

www.pierre@pierregabriel.com

Distribution@PierreGabriel.com

PIERRE GABRIEL ACOUSTIC INC.
110 Boul. des Entreprises
Boisbriand,Québec,Canada
J7G-2T3
Phone: (450)430-1485
Toll Free:(877)430-1485
Hi Sir.
Here is the letter we sent about the Jadis distribution in the USA.:

Pierre Gabriel Acoustic Inc, Signs US Distribution agreement with Jadis Electronics of Villedubert, France

Boisbriand, Quebec, Canada, October 25, 2004.

Pierre Gabriel Acoustic Inc is pleased and honoured to announce they have acquired exclusive distribution rights to Jadis Electronics in the USA.

Jadis Electronics of Villedubert, France is a manufacturer of renowned, High End tube based electronics. They offer a wide product line that meet tube enthusiast’s needs around the world.

Pierre Gabriel Acoustic Inc has been in business since 1990 and is a manufacture / distributor of its own line of high end loudspeakers and silver wire interconnects.

We also have years of exclusive distribution rights in Canada for “Jadis” and “The Gryphon” lines of electronics.

We have recently relocated to a more spacious working environment to accommodate this new distribution agreement.

Our future goal and commitment is to setup agreements with reputable High End audio retailers across the US to distribute the Jadis line of products.

This will insure product availability and service to all present and future Jadis owners across the US.

In recent years, we have heard from many, that this product was in much demand but hard to evaluate without being seen nor heard.

We look forward to changing this situation and fulfilling everyone’s Jadis requirements.

For further details, please contact:

www.pierregabriel.com
Distribution@PierreGabriel.com

PIERRE GABRIEL ACOUSTIC INC.
110 Boul. des Entreprises
Boisbriand,Québec,Canada
J7G 2T3
Phone : (450)430-1485
Toll Free:(877)430-1485
So, Pierre, inquiring minds WANT to know.

Aside from the press release, is there a dealership potentially on the way in the NYC, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware area in the near term???
I know that one guy currently at my dealer (Mike O'Keefe) probably sold more Jadis than anyone in the country for many years when he was at Audio Outlet, and he's the guy who sold me my JA80s and my JP200. I'd nominate him, if the dealer is interested in carrying the brand again. But in all honesty, it may take a bit of work, including a good repair facility network, to undo some of the damage done to the brand name in the past few years.
I have a DA8 and i've always thought it was auto bias. If it's NOT, how do i bias it?? I don't see any little screws or terminals for the voltmeter.

Can someone kindly enlighten me?

Thanks.
Eps, to be truthful, when would I bias my Jadis Orchestra
Reference, it never needed as much adjustment as I expected.

In fact, I just switched from Ei KT90 to JJ E34L, and despite the monumental difference in tubes, I was astonished about how close to being in the new tubes actually were. They were just outside of spec (89 mV, range is 95 - 120 mV, preferably 110 mv), which is probably not that big a deal.

Hopefully, Pierre will chime in on biasing.

I would like to offer that if the DA5 uses the same procedure as the JOR, I have created a document, complete with pictures (because they are truly worth a thousand words) on the bias procedure. It's probably six pages, with maybe 8 or so pictures. I would be more than happy to publish it here on Audiogon.

I had received a document from Jadis, but it was not very intuitive. Because I was selling the amp to Springbok10, I wanted to be sure that the procedure was crystal clear (and again, a picture is worth a thousand words).

In my opinion, the biasing itself, once learned (not at all intuitive), is incredibly easy (the pictures make it easy, even for a first timer). The difficulty lies in that you must remove the bottom and sides with the JOR. It's the reassembly that I HATED! Knowing what I know now, I would drill holes (there are already a lot of holes there already) that line up with the resistors and potentiometers, making it a simple, 3 minute procedure. No muss, no fuss.
Hi - Talked to my friend last night who owns a DA5.

He will send instructions to adjust bias at a higher setting shortly, that by the way were provided by Jadis (so no vudu-like mods in this case).

He told me that it is auto-bias and not (????) and the trick resides in some passive controlers within the DA5 circuit (whatever that means...), anyway.. I will get the instructions from him later and will post it for your info.

Fernando
Does anyone know what type and brand of power tubes are stock in current production Defy7's and JA200's?
This is what it says in Jadis' website:

_________________________________________

2- POWER PENTODES

KT90 : With its plate and screen dissipation of 60W, the KT90 is the most reliable tube that we know of. This is why our JA 800 amplifier uses this tube exclusively. The KT90 will also be supplied as the standard choice in the new JADIS range (JA 50, JA 100, JA 250)

6550C : The most widely used power tube. We use Russian tubes produced in St. Petersburg .

6CA7 With a sweeter sound than the KT90 or the 6550, this tube can be used on a large variety of amplifiers.

KT88 : This is the reference tube for audiophiles. We use tubes specialy built for us

_____________________________________

http://www.jadis-electronics.com/pages_eng/info/tubes.htm
Are the KT88 tubes that most of the Jadis amps seem to be using these days, JJ KT88?

In my own Jadis, the KT90 were stock. But, now I see that they come with KT88. I believe the reason is the lack of KT90 availability after the Ei factory was destroyed by NATO. However, now ElectroHarmonix is producing KT90 tubes, though I have heard they are not quite as good sounding as the Ei.

I agree with the statement regarding KT90 reliability. Mine ran for 5 years with a lot of play. One shorted, with no damage to the amp, and the other three tested good enough to still probably be OK for a while. The sound was quite neutral with this tube, with excellent power, and even balance across the frequency range. Extension at both ends of the spectrum, but particularly bass, was outstanding. Overall, however, I found myself wanting for a more romantic, tubey sound.

I retubed the amp with JJ E34L tubes. Power was down a fair amount, as well as bass response. However, the tone of this tube was just about perfect through the midrange. The sound of each note and vocals was as good as I have ever encountered. Treble was also very nice. I only got to put about 10 hours on these tubes, but my impressions were immensely positive. I have sold the amp to Springbok10, and he seems to love it. He has told me that the sound has improved tremendously now that the tubes have 150 hours plus on them. Highly recommended.

For a short while, to compare to the JJ E34L tubes, I tried JJ KT88s. Wow! My complaints about power and bass response were more than addressed, while the spectacular sound of the midrange was still there. I will say that this tube seems to have a midbass fatness that while I find intoxicating, could be argued that it might not be completely accurate. Absolute bass extension was still not as much as the Ei KT90, however.

I think overall, I would either go with JJ E34L or KT88 tubes. I would love to hear the amp with the E34Ls with 250 hours on them. The midrange and treble should be about as good as it gets. Still, presuming the KT88 is close in this regard, I would probably opt for that tube.

Fernando, that adjustment might be the same thing I was referring to in one of my above posts. Hopefully, Pierre Gabriel will speak to the biasing of the DA5 and DA8.
Treja, I have a Defy7 MKIV and would like to try the JJKT88's, doees the "JJ" refer to the brand of the tube? Or is it part of the designation of the tube, as I never heard of "JJ". Can you please clearify. Thanks.
I think Joe's talking about the brand, JJ Tesla.
Thanks Reprince.
How would something like the Jadis JA-200's compare to Audio Research 610T or CAT JL3 ?
Would love to know if Jadis preamps are still competitive?
They are - but should live in a Jadis world (I mean using a Jadis power amp)
Yes they are, if you value the Jadis house sound (I personally think that sound will never go out of style). And they work fine with Lamm amps as well.
Unfortunately, I do'nt think any new Jadis kit is competitive. Unfortunately, because I would love to own one of their integrated amps. 5 years ago the J88s top of the line integrated was about £6000 in the UK, now it is over £11000, mostly due to currency exchange rate movements. It just is'nt worth that, even if I could afford it, which I can'nt.
I find the JA-500 to be very competitive with today's uber designs. The one I have is well maintained. It has been taken care of by DaHong Seetoo for most of its adult life. It does not sound "tuby" by any means. It is a very magical amplifier, and it's drop dead beautiful to boot.

Peter
Jadis sound good, but everyone I know who owned this brand experience failures of one kind or another.
New, they have become insanely expensive. The DA88 integrated I was interested in, went up from about £8000 to over £1200, in quite a short time and £/Euro rates have'nt changed that much. Recently, I listened to a second hand Jadis DA50 and next day, an Ayon Spark and Orion. On different systems, with the Jadis through Wilson Sasha's, probably not a great match and I'm not a Wilson fan. The Spark seemed streets ahead, to my ears and I bought that.
I have listened to a lot of tube amps in the last few years and Ayon seem to be up there with the best at the Moment.
The Jadis 80 monoblocks set up correctly with right speakers and cabling are simply magical wish I could afford them.