It costs me $100 a week to listen to vinyl

Hi,
>>> As Raul continues to implore us.........."try it, you may be surprised?" <<<

There is a rub, where can you find this stuff and be sure it is still in good nick?!
The current offerings seem ALL without exception targeted at the LO- and Mid-Fi. I have listened to some of these, no thanks.

I do realise that during the early MC period (~ early 80s) some top MMs were made. And I guess could compete with the even then VERY PRICEY MC offerings (you needed at step-up trannie too, no 60dB phono-stages then). I sure opted out then as the cost was just too high.

So, I still have a creeping suspicion, it's still: you get what you pay for.
Listening to some more affordable HI- and LO-MCs tells me just that. Never mind those 'run of the mill' main-stream current MM offerings, wanna be a DJ?

If I'm right (and who can say?) it's back to digging up some TOP MMs of days gone by, and I guess Raul is way ahead of us.
So let's hear of some MMs you can actually BUY, and not just find after a lot of scratching on the internet.

Raul gave me a short list on his MM thread, and as from my part of the world ---- niente!

Greetings,
Axel

Hi Halcro,

re-tip an MM, ja now fine... I guess you go get a new cantilever insert --- at least in my part of the world.

Have done that to an e.g. SUMIKO Pearl and put the next better elliptical in it.
Sound? SUX, unless we are into lower Mid-Fi to really go save some bucks.

The trouble might be, that we (I, who else?) lost some know-how with these babies, and the reviews don't help much either. Just go check out those point system evaluations, AUDIO, Streo-Play, STEREO, that I know of. Top of the pops MM gets 80 out of ~110 and that's the exception!
So 80 points = 80s sound? I don't say it is so, but it sure makes folks go rather for some Mid-FI HO-MC in my experience, and a shame it may be ---- but COOL (-: ‘cause MM sux… yeah?

A sign of hope I see: Ortofon's new M2, where would that one come into it? $$$ ?

Axel

Hi Raul,
thanks for continued encouragement :-)
But now seriously >>>no plug&play<<< I'm fiddling my socks off with MCs as it is!
Are you telling me this is getting worse to get an MM right? Eish!
Next, 70*500=35'000$ phew, so let's make that 200$ 14'000$ are we talking expensive MC now, or what?
I can only listen to ONE at a time (-: You buy such a load, their got to be good ones in there for sure. I think the whole of SA has not more left then 70 good ones, if that many. EBay......... me no like, sorry. Scared of crooks and thieving Post Office workers. So it is a bit tricky, but I keep my eyes pealed.

Axel

Hi Halco,
that is educational in deed!
you say:
+++ I watched Brian Garrot remove and glue a new stylus...
It is not rocket science like re-tipping moving coils seems to be? +++

Have you ever tried that yourself at all? (I'm not being sarcastic, please)

Something struck me yesterday, listening to "Brothers in Arms".
This will not change things in the cost department, but in the SOUND department.
Here goes:
I understand, that some of the attraction, other then price, is the tendency of a 'fuller' reproduction with MMs i.e. more BASS. Though usually it is coming with a lesser treble performance -- of sorts.
Why it that so?
The higher voltage output directly from that 'massive' coil in the MM body of ~ 5.0mV (mid-point spec. for MM phono stage = 4.7mV input) which makes for a VERY good signal transfer.
Why lesser treble performance?
Because of the higher mass of the magnet / stylus system compared to any LO-MC. That is MM/MC understanding 101, yes?

But what's been going 'down the drain' is some MC 101 understanding. Due to its minimal output voltage EVERY MC originally had to have a step-up transformer to bring it up to ~ 5.0mV (like any MM).
Then came the 'smarties' and said: No need! We'll find the missing 20dB in that solid-state (as tubes only won't hack it) phono-stage for you, save you that SUT cost!
So there we are.
BUT, the funny thing is, that ONE important thing has changed --- that easy, no sweat, BASS performance like an MM can produce (and the MCs superior treble can make that lesser BASS 'feel' even more so -- missing). I'm sure any MM fan will give me some credit as far as the BASS part of it goes, yes?

Now it gets funny (for plenty folks): In comes the SUT and make that MC work as it was originally the case.
What do we get? BASS! What else? Even more dynamic differentiation / depth (diff. between very quite and damn loud), STAGE WIDTH! But there is also a small price to pay --- images are JUST not quite THAT sharp, still good but still.
I still much prefer it to the more anaemic type of hyper-detailed sound, and believe me, I have done lots of cross checking (A/B).

Long story short:
Has any of the MM fans had a chance to hear am MC with a **properly set-up** trannie?
I think THAT, to me, would be the correct comparison --- alas not in price. The trannie / MC set-up should 'beat the socks of ANY MM', it more better has to!
If that was not so, WHY on earth would ANYONE EVER have come up with that MC concept?!
Just to rip us off, I really don't think so.

So yes, NO QUESTION, a top MM is still a worthy cost related alternative, absolutely --- BUT an MC WITH a good trannie is as powerful, AND more detailed, i.e. revealing still more of the inner-detail of the music. Listen to pop / rock (van Halen :-?)-- what inner detail I ask? But then as there is also e.g. Roxy Music...

I like MMs, the bass, the power, but I like an MC WITH a trannie most probably better yet...

Does that make an MM a poor (thinking) man's choice? Could well be just that.

Greetings,
Axel

Hi Emailists,
your post brings up some interesting questions for me.

1) Why would a stylus be worn out after ~ 2 years of intensive / exclusive listening ---- if the records are CLEAN / cleaned.
Vinyl has some 'self-lubricating' properties that aught to prevent this wearing so soon. Are you actually using a RCM?

2) This stylus swap and change item / idea. It is my understanding that the stylus-carrier, so far as my experience goes, is at about 2/3 of the MM cart's price. This makes for only a minor saving in not replacing the hole cart?

Next, I come to understand that it is the STYLUS type (fine-line, micro-line, shiabata, replicant, etc.) and the cantilever material (boron. period) that makes MMs closer in performance to an MC.
Now, to replace e.g. a Fritz Gyger Special stylus (on a boron cantilever) cost me ~ 850 Euro (by J. Allaerts). If that's what's actually needed to get an MM into the top league, this whole 'savings' idea starts to sound be bit challenged to me.
Any 'more basic' stylus (round / elliptical) and cantilever (alu-tube) sounds like just like what it is --- economised, yes? Any of these top MMs use 'fancy' stylus and cantilever, correct me if I wrong.

Food for thought.
Greetings,
Axel