Isolation question. Monitor on Subwoofer

Just curious...

I have 2 subs, and due to space limits i have been thinking about going with Monitors and putting them on the subwoofers.

Here is my idea, if anyone knows if this will not work please let me know why.

Subwoofer on spikes.
On top of subwoofer either a marble or granite slab. Felt beneath the slab to keep it from scratching the top of the sub.
Monitor speakers coupled on small custom built stands (possibly built to hold sand or leadshot) to achieve the correct height, spikes on the stand which would sit on the granite above the subwoofer

Would this achieve decent isolation between the monitor and subwoofer? I see alot of speakers with built in subwoofers, or other types of speakers with the fullrange box and monitor on top, (GMA Continuims, Watt/puppy, etc)

Thoughts on this from you Coupleing/Isolation Guru's?

Would this do a decent job of isolation or should i look into other methods?
lol...I was just pondering this last night...2 small velo hgs10's somehow under my monitors but with custom made stands that "straddle" the subs. I like your way better if it would work...hope we get some good advice.
I had thought of the straddle myself, but i figured the weight in the center with the outstretched legs wouldnt be the best way to do it.

Maybe i will just get David Blane to come by my house and levitate my speakers in the air.
well...I dont see why your idea wouldn't work...kind of a homemade vr4 jr or watt puppy?...who knows.
I agree. I am setting up RBH T-2P towers, and on these (and many other) speakers the monitors dock on top of the subs...

Slappy, Sound Anchors sells an item called BlueDots which are 1 1/2 diameter x 3/32 thick medium density sorbathane disks for use between speakers and stands. Sold 25 Bluedots in a bag, they are adhesive on both sides, however leave no residue, even after many years of use.

I guess it depends...

If the box of your sub isn't too good meaning it physically shakes, then its better to put something heavy on top of the sub then put the monitors on top of that, mass loading. If the sub is pretty sturdy then...

you don't have to worry too much about physical vibration but mechanical vibration might or might not be an issue. Some kind of conductive cone ought to be used in this case with the pointy side down.

Do both of physical and mechanical vibrations are an issue. I think you'd know if mechanical vibration is an issue of you don't actually see the monitor vibrating while it's on top of the sub yet the sound is not right. I would imagine the speakers would sound thin and unprecise if you have mechanical vibration problems.

If neither physical or mechanical vibration is an issue, just get the dots stuff that audiobugged is suggesting.

I read somewhere that cats are great decouplers.
Slappy, The Bluedots bond really well, & you might even break a sweat trying to pull the units apart? The best thing about a pack of 25 is you might have enough left over to adhere yourself another girlfriend?
Instead of the marble slab, try putting your monitors on points (I use Audiopoints)and couple that baby to your already coupled sub. You know I'm a coupler. That may work..that's a big may, however....
peace, warren
Audiobugged, I like the way you think! ;)
Actually, ive been looking into some sort of a repellant. Probably due to some anomaly in the universe, girls get stupid over me pretty easily. You sure wouldnt think so if you met me though! I guess i have a natural spanish fly. I need a female Ce-coupler and a Slappy-Isolation system.

Anyways, Do the blue dots Isolate or Couple? I figured it would be best to get as little vibration to the monitors as possible from the subwoofer, but maybe im wrong and should try to get them act as a single mass?

This coupling/decoupling thing is a pain in the butt.
But the isolation cones do look cool. heheh
Slappy, I'm not touching your natural spanish fly issue, it would be too easy!!!

The Bluedots I feel would Isolate & Couple, & safe you all this propossed construction time.

Leaving you plenty of time to enjoy your system, & shake off the Women.

Rememeber Danny Bonaduce from the Partridge Family? You might wanna take a really, really, really good look at the women your attracting!!!

The other stupid thing to consider, are they stupid prior to going stupid over you? :0)~
That is definatly a thing to consider. They might have been stupid when i met em. Unfortunatly i dont seem to attract the "Sane" variety very often. When i came to work yesterday people thought i had gotten thrown in a sack with a pack of angry wolverines. What a fun yet very painful and slightly traumatic night! ;)
Why do all the real cute ones turn out to be crazy eh?

Ok, maybe i need to go back in the forums and search up Couple/de-coupling, cause apparently i dont know what the hell i thought i knew i was talking about if you know what i mean.

I thought that De-coupling and Isolation were synonomous, that either one meant to give as little contact as possible to reduce the amount of vibrations recieved from other pieces of gear, while Coupling was the opposite, of which you are attempting to turn the object and what it is on top of into a single mass.

i better go hit the forums. Ive been dreading that couple/de-coupling thread though. Time to dive in
Slappy, "A very painful and slightly traumatic night"? Are you sure she was human?

Sounds more like you hid a banana in your pants, & set a hungry monkey loose! Are your sure it's a spanish, & not a natural polish fly issue? You might want to get some rabies, & tetanus shots?

In laid-mans terms what you can achieve with the Bluedots is keep the monitors in place from the low-end rumble from the subs, & isolate so nothing resonates!

Instead of watt/puppy, you could name your final contraption after your last date - gorilla/chimp? :0)~
If you use Audiopoints, and I feel you should, then do not combine coupling with so called do so would be the worst of combinations..The Audiopoints are designed to be directional..the point has a bandpass of 2hz to several meg..So you want to use Audiopoint 1.5's or 2.0's under the subs..On top of the subs you would then place 3 Audiopoint APCD coupling discs which impove point coupling on wooden surfaces and also protect the finish. Now you want to place, point down into the dimple of the discs Audiopoint 1.0's or 1.5's so your speakers sit atop the flat surface of the Audiopoints..This arrangement allows for a single exit point for the relief of vibration..You also have the benefit of wave launch enhancement..because you now have the possibilty of aligning the voice coils of the monitors with those of the subs below..You can carefully slide the monitor front to back on top of the sub..The APCD discs allow you to do this tweak easily..careful how you push.. you can knock the point out of the dimple..I have performed this procedure with several subs and monitors..Including my Servo15's..Someone mentioned marble atop a speaker that used some other type of points..doing so would slow down the possible exit path thru the point and provide a different exit speed thru the top of the speaker.Resulting in confusion...Tom .I am a Starsound dealer
Damn tom, that is one hell of an answer! So, in a short-assed version it wouldnt work, thanks for the alternate suggestion, ill have to look into these Audiopoints.

She sure seemed human untill she go me home. ;)
Slappy, "She sure seemed human untill she go me home"?
What the heck, are you typing in tounges? Boy she musta hurt you bad! You better lather on the Ben-Gay, prior to your next encounter!
Yeah, next time i will be sure to arrive in full hockey goalie gear with a baseball bat and a can of mace! (laugh)
One more idea: Any stainless fishing line ?
Suspend and cradle monitors from ceiling 'just above' the subs ?
Just an after thought bud, sorta like the levitating act.
Slappy, Full Combat Gear, wow that makes for a SCARY visual! LOL
No wonder your looking to isolate, prior to swinging your Bat.
Yeah, as Rx8Man suggests Spectra-Line might be a good choice. It doubles well as an assassination wire like in Marathon Man.

The other thing I'm thinking is that even if the sub and monitors aren't touching, but still in very close proximity, the massive movement of the sub's driver may have an effect on the movement of the monitor's woofer. It might affect the midrange.

The reason I bring this up is that I've had a couple experiences WAY in the past and fairly recently where a monitor's woofer affected a passive slave sub's driver.

So Slappy, you've got yourself slaves, subs, straddling, fishing line and hot psycho chicks. Why are you still here with us?!!!
RX8 i have thought about that, but i was never sure if it would be a good idea or not. There are vaulted ceilings in my room that are about 10 feet above where the left speaker will be and about 16 feet above the right speakers location.

i guess there is no reason i couldnt do that, however, on a nice breezy day if my windows are open my sweetspot will be rather intermittant as my speakers swing like schoolchildren on the jungle gym. (laugh)
"as my speakers swing like schoolchildren on the jungle gym".

This could create for some cool ass imaging. It'll make Diana Krall sound like she's drowning or being blown around in the wind.
Gunbei, After Slappy just mentioned his Gladiator style bedroom attire, ceiling mounting with stainless or chains like the Bose 901 fad may not be a good idea? As with his slaves, subs, & hot psycho chicks, I'm just not grasping the school children style swing variety! I don't even wanna know what he ment of his statement "My Sweet Spot"!!!
Maybe i can mount couple hot psycho chicks in some chinese-love swings over the subwoofers with a monitor strapped to thier chest, with a pair of wolverines beneath the subwoofers. I can top it off by using those Amplifier shoes in that other thread and put em on the psycho's feet to amplify the monitors. Even throw in some of those Flower speakers for good measure.
I can sit there in my Medeival Combat Hockey Goalie attire and take audiopoint slapshots at the psychos if they start fidgiting.

Man, this isolation/coupling thing is pretty insane! Imagine the Pic i would put in my virtual system!
Alright Slappy,
Time to get serious, after you get your speakers suspended, find the *sweetspot* (where it sounds best) and locate a point directly *above* that. (plum-bob works)
Suspend another length of wire from your vaulted ceiling at that point to about 3.5 feet above the floor.
Create a noose at the end of the line and invite your friend(s) over for a listening session they'll never forget !!
You would need identical twin twisted sisters for suspended psycho chicks to keep everything timbre matched. Go get busy! Put that natural spanish fly of yours to work, as you have virtual system pictures to take! Just remember Slaximus "What We Do In Life Echoes In Eternity"!
Slappy, you really need to buy the Music Pump Monoblocks and Purse Preamp from Gilbert Yeung. Remember, you must match the audio equipment to the chicks.
...Or likely to remember. Heheh.
Rx8man, Hangin out at Slappy's, now has a whole new meaning!
Gunbei, If your smart, you'd best stay away from Slappy's house for a while (just call him) till he gets *this system* worked out and fine tuned with others.
This is what I'll call the *New Room Tune Method*
Jest Hangin Mang, Jesta Hangin !
Any Beta Testers ?
Man this system is gonna be sweet!

Where the hell is Ellery911? he would enjoy this one.

Thinking of Ellery, looks like he is gonna make it down here for the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest.
I better get crackin on finding some Cute Psycho-Twins, some Pump Monoblocks, Purse Pre-amp, Chinese Love Swings, Wolverines, Spanish Fly, Hockey Gear, Medeival Armor, Audiopoints, and a Noose..... better get a package of bacon for good measure.

Thats a hell of a shopping list. Hopefully i can get it all set up so when Ellery visits he can try out the noose.

then i'll need to get some shovels, plasit bags, a hacksaw, some limesalt, and an air freshener and no witnesses.

Just like *Reservoir Dogs* and *Snatch* Slappy.
Is not that what Slim Pickens yelled as he rode the A-bomb down from the sky to its final destination in the pro humanity movie Dr.Strangelove..Tom
Bacon for good measure? Don't let Killerpiglet hear that!
Slappy I have your total solution. First get spikes on the bottowm of the subs and put bags of lead shoot (many) to get them almost bolted to the floor. Get a slab of wood 2" thick and get PVC pipe and glue them to the bottom of the slab in each corner. Buy 4 raquet balls and place the speakers on top of the slab and put the 4 raquet balls under the slab where the PVC meets the sub squashing down on the balls. This will give you great bass and reduce the vibration so your mids won't be smeared.

I have tried too many options and this really works, it also works perfect for amp stands. Another Agon buddy didn't thiink it would work with his Wolcott mono blocks but he now swears that he can crank it up to ear bleeding levels and when he touches the amps, no vibration.

Happy Listening and whatever else you're into!!
Mids will not be smeared because the leading edge transients will be be damped into oblivion.. unlike the real thing..Whats remains will be dark and without life..Other than that it will be okay..Tom
Dark and without life, but otherwise ok?
Heh. I dunno if i like the sound of that! :)
ummm...I guess I'm speechless on this one...looks like I'll be staying with my original what's that you're saying'll have a couple of hot psycho twins lined up for us when I get be cool...I just got over one I think I can hang...about the bacon though...hahahaha
Dark & Without Life = Identical Twin "GOTH" Psycho Chicks!
Hmmm.. Hot Gothic Twin Psychos.....
Man that sounds like more trouble than any man should have to endure.
just give me the doublemint twins & I'll be happy
I think they were hired to entertain the troops at a booth at the Cedia AV show and clubs to the northeast of downtown Indianapolis just last weekend..Thats what I saw and I think I remember..They shared the same chair and were friendly with each other and anyone else for that matter...Tom
Tom, think maybe you where just seeing in Stereo?
No the one on the right had eyes that were more to the south and a complexion that had slightly more contrast and texture than her counterpart to the right who had more highlights and who's edge enhancement was slightly more defined..They were the perfect couple.. or in stereo the perfect four.Or maybe that was how Quadrophonic was meant to be..Tom
Quadrophonic is that when an audiophile's wife is expecting quadruplets?
The mathematicial precursor to prologic, only with better seperation.More like Dolby digital in effect..Way back in the early 70's..When the colors were more colorfull. Tom
Tom, maybe but so far in my system and a few other systems, this works for us. It is cheap and easy to find out if it works in a system.

Here is the design information on what I am offering:

Vibration robs your system of dynamics and detail, pace and general accuracy. It is everywhere even when your speakers are not creating their own and feeding it back to your equipment via your floor. The system-external sources are ever present and both naturally (geologically) and artificially created, and only vary in intensity throughout the day. Low frequency noise exists at all times in our modern environment, and in all planes, not just the horizontal or just the vertical, passing through the ground and building structures easily.

The design is a vibration isolation system to replace the existing spikes and cones that normally come with racks, stands and other bases, as a matter of current style. In simplistic terms, the idea is basically retainer cups with a rubber ball placed under them to isolate from vibration in all directions, unlike many devices that only work in one plane. Simple, yes, but this is a true pneumatic suspension. Many other devices are meant to “shift” resonance (thereby fooling the buyer into thinking that something good has happened temporarily until the listener realizes that the noises only moved a bit in frequency). Devices touted to “ground vibration” to somewhere, usually the shelf or floor they are on, “work” in that fashion. This cannot work well, as more noise comes from those than can possibly be passed to them! Spikes and cones can only be couplers, never isolators. That means that they actually help noise up right into your stands and everything on them. They cannot be “mechanical diodes”, the totally incorrect “new wives tale” most of us have seen parroted somewhere. This is a seriously misunderstood thing presently. The design is simply and more straightforwardly meant block them altogether, within the limits of performance that still allow this device to be sturdy enough to support heavy equipment, and they don't poke holes into your floor, either.

Hope this is helpful.

Peter sorry for being harsh in my statement..Tom

I did not take your response that way at all! This is what works in my system and worth a try since you can do it cheap. Threads are meant to pass along good information to other members so they can become educated and get their system to sound better. Good information can hopefully improve ones system and I still try things out every month, just ask my wife, box after box is delivered by the UPS guy/gal. The exchange of ideas has helped me over the years I have been a member on Agon.

Funny, I just got this sent to me: