Is this the END of DAYS for the high end CD player


Seem like this format days are numbered like the cassette and LP. Why would you want to spend 5k or 10k+ for a high-end CD player or DAC combo??

Just trying to see what other audiophile’s thoughts are and where you guys & gals may be planing for the future. Do you stop here at the high end CD player and this format or go completely too digital files?

I'm at a quandary about investing into an expensive CD player setup.
apachef1

Showing 7 responses by cbw723

I think that most of the bigger manufacturers of audiophile CD players will likely discontinue them within the next few years. There will likely remain a few boutique brands for years to come, but the advantages of computer audio are simply too great for most audiophiles not to jump ship once they've experienced it.

Jim Smith ("Get Better Sound"), said in his recent Quarter Notes update:
My little MBP/Ayre/Pure Music rig is simply better than the best CD playback that I own, have owned, or that I have ever heard. As I’ve voiced systems around North America, I’ve run into some systems with really sophisticated CD playback – as well as excellent vinyl playback.

In every instance, the client has been struck with the compelling sound quality I get with every-day 16bit/44.1 music that I imported from standard CDs. It’s no exaggeration to say that some were literally dumbfounded. They had no idea that level of sound could be available from standard CD-sourced digital, not to mention that it came from a simple and relatively small - portable - rig. And every visitor to my place has had the same reaction.
"MBP" is a MacBook Pro, the "Ayre" is a QB-9, and Pure Music is a program that piggybacks on iTunes and offers better playback and many other powerful options (crossovers, audio plug-ins, upsampling, downsampling, etc.)

Actually, here's a list Jim made of computer audio advantages (which includes the above quote):
(1) Ease of operation – this is a no-brainer. No discs or tapes to handle. No danger of scratching them or other wear and tear issues. In my absent-minded professor style, I’m always misplacing my music. Instead of searching through your source material for that music that you thought you knew where you’d left it, you just look into your computer list, select the music, push play, and voila!

Also, I often only want to hear certain songs from an album. So I can store only those certain songs. Or easily select them with a mouse click.

(2) I was unprepared for the improved sound quality as I introduced some options that were available in Pure Music. Of course, some of these options may also be available in other software programs. The cool thing is that you can try them out and see if you like them. If not, go back to what you had. No equipment to buy.

As upgrades come along in the software, the downloads are easy and they are free. No sending your component back to the factory for days or weeks. As a hard-core audiophile over the years, I can tell you that hardware upgrades are NOT free!

My little MBP/Ayre/Pure Music rig is simply better than the best CD playback that I own, have owned, or that I have ever heard. As I’ve voiced systems around North America, I’ve run into some systems with really sophisticated CD playback – as well as excellent vinyl playback.

In every instance, the client has been struck with the compelling sound quality I get with every-day 16bit/44.1 music that I imported from standard CDs. It’s no exaggeration to say that some were literally dumbfounded. They had no idea that level of sound could be available from standard CD-sourced digital, not to mention that it came from a simple and relatively small - portable - rig. And every visitor to my place has had the same reaction.

If you still haven’t dipped your toes into the Computer Audio water (and from the correspondence I get, at least half-to-two thirds of you haven’t), come on in. The water is mighty fine!

(3) Stumbling blocks. Yep, there are some. I think some people (who are not totally computer savvy) will have a moment or two where they don’t understand how to make something work in the set-up. Please trust me here – it is TOTALLY worth the possible momentary frustrations to get another level of performance that is easier to access. And you may not have any troubles at all.

Whichever software you select, I’d definitely start out with the stock music player program and use it for a while. Then, if you’re so inclined, try some of the options.

Some folks worry about the “time lost” importing their CDs. I haven’t found this to be an issue. I can do it while working. I can do it while watching TV or listening to music. I often do it while reading.

(4) Relative cost of upgrades – hardware vs. software. Pretty much of a no-brainer and one of the big advantages of Computer Audio.

(5) If only the CD had been conceived of, designed, and supported by audiophiles. Fortunately we do have musically sensitive audiophiles on the digital design scene now, so it’s a new day!

Two points I'd add to the above: It is not necessarily true that software updates are free. They often are for minor versions, but major updates often cost something. Pure Music costs $129, so I'd expect a major update (once every year or two) to be $59 or $79 or thereabouts. The other point is that if someone has a really large CD collection and doesn't want to rip the whole thing, there are services that will do it for a fee.

All of what Jim wrote above says nothing about the huge sonic improvements that come from hi-res material.

The manufacturers of high-end CDPs need to get on board, because within five years, that market is going to be 10% or 20% of what it is now.
I, too, lament the passing of the local record/CD shop. While ordering online is convenient and cheap, it just isn't as satisfying as browsing a really good record store. It's too bad the big chains came along and killed the local shops before dying themselves. If that hadn't happened, I think a lot more of the local shops would still be around. At least for a few more years.
Good luck, Bill. As with everything else in audio, it may take some finessing to get the sound you like, but I think once you do, you'll love the instant access to all of your (digital) music.

If you are going with a Mac Mini, you'll find information all over the web on how to best configure it for use as a music server.

Post a thread and let us know how it goes.
I think vinyl will probably stick around for quite some time, too. But if 96K and 192K downloads become more available for a wide selection of music, vinyl will probably become even more marginalized than it is now.
Wayneker, the CD drive in a computer is capable of retrieving the data on a CD perfectly. Not close to perfectly. Perfectly. Anything less, like a single bit out of place, and the OS you just loaded could be useless. While you can elect to bypass the error correction when ripping CDs, it isn't advisable. It is only within the software, where the data is converted from one representation to another, or in playback, that differences can arise.

And fragmentation has nothing to do with jitter. A modern disk drive can deliver data to memory far, far faster than is required for audio playback, no matter how the data is distributed. Again, the process results in perfect transfer -- not a single bit is allowed to be misplaced as it is lined up in memory.

As to noise, crosstalk, EMI, etc., they apply equally to a CD player. While it may be some time before someone creates a special purpose computer optimized for audio, the current general purpose ones are doing a pretty good job. Pro audio is almost completely computerized at this point. Long before you buy them, the music on your CDs has been through more computers than you can shake a stick at.
Wayneker, the bits coming off the CD are the same. Some ripping software, like XLD, allows you to compare a checksum of your rip to a database. Thousands of ripped CDs are checked this way, and the resulting files are bit-for-bit identical (or the program grumbles).

You don't say how you linked your 069 to the computer. There are a lot of ways for the signal to go wrong between the computer's hard drive and the DAC. The biggest culprit is probably jitter, followed by the playback software. How did you go from computer to DAC?
Grannyring, the computer is unlikely to have a big impact on sound quality as long as it meets certain minimum performance standards (though there are things you can do to make your computer "sound better"). So, yes, there are cheaper ways to go than the MacBook Pro. It doesn't even have to be a laptop -- I use a Mac Mini as my audio source, and then control it remotely through a laptop, but there are other remote options. You can also use Windows computers. I don't know much about them, but many people have good results with them. You may even be able to do a trial run with your current computer.

If you really are thinking of jumping in, and are new to the game, I'd suggest reading the computer audio set up instructions on some web sites (both Ayre and Wavelength have them, but they can be found elsewhere). When you have a better idea of what you want to do, post your intentions and questions on the PC audio forum here, or on a forum at Computer Audiophile -- you'll get lots of tips and suggestions from experienced users. Good luck!