Is there a Solid State amp that can satisfy a SET guy?
Vinnie knows what music sounds like and is a very nice guy, I was very impressed by his early battery powered small amps. I bet his new integrated is excellent, Think there is an option of tube choice. If you can use a 300B, I would highly recommend getting Takasukis. Parts Connection in Canada has them for $1400. They are the next best to old WEs. |
Sad to hear about the Leema sounding very SS. The thing that, I think, bothered me the most about SS is the edge and brightness. And, I think, the thing I love most about SETs is the musicality. I heard the Dartzeels are amazing but I can’t afford one. And I understand the Line Magnetic is also good but I think I will gravely miss the 300B sound. Think the more power the less musicality. My speakers are Tetra 606s. Love the Tetra designer’s hear. So, maybe, his recommendation of the Leema is good. But talking with him about this, he used the phrase “what you like” referring to my 300Bs. |
I also have thought about looking for a pair of Dehavilland Aires mono blocks with 845s. They talk about how well the can handle even lower sensitivity than my 92 dB Tetras. But I tried a really good 845 based amp, the Viva Solista, and did not like it. BTW-if the Leema sounds very SS, what does that actually mean? I am sure that there are many good things about SS... ? |
Sugden seems interesting. I do love the "BBC" take on audio. But "air and sweetness" or "musicality" and I like "a different paradigm, apples and watermelon". I like watermelon-lot of juice but "an apple a day... ". I don't think there are too many 805 tubes available. Not keen on Psvane. But after my experience with the Viva 845 amp, I have cold feet about going with one of the higher power SETs. I also owned a parallel 300B-close, but no banana. I owned an Atmosphere S30 and still own and enjoy a Berning MicroZotl (tomorrow I pick up my 45 SET from my tech who just modified it with a 1/4" jack and volume to use it for my headphones instead of my MicroZotl). The OTL sound is clear and musical but cool and SS sounding. And linear as in Linear Tube Audio. But there must be a SS amp that has qualities of a 300B and a lot of other great qualities that make it a sound that I can easily live with and love like my 300Bs?? |
The closest, it seems, to the truth is that there are two different paradigms. Jin and Jang?? The Valvet E2 SE seems to be the best option yet. I have long admired many German Audio companies. Surely, German engineering has been on the cutting edge technology forever. They did almost take over the world! But in the Audio world, most great German products are way expensive. The Valvet is only $4k. Maybe because of its simplicity. Only one transistor a channel, short signal path and only 12 wpc. I am very taken by what one reviewer said: “Vacuum tubes are no longer necessary for warmth, texture, purity and correctness”. And I have always been attracted by low power SS amps. My SET amp designer says, “The more power the less magic”. I am pretty convinced that I will never get a sound that is as magic as a great 300B SET (mine are 4 chassis 3 Dimension Audio mono blocks with Takayuki 300Bs-custom made for the prototype Magico Ultimates which used 16 chassis for 4 channels). Not the actual “magic” but maybe a compromise? My new speakers arrive in 4 days. If I feel my current amp does not take hold of the big 3 way speakers with a 12” woofer, I may ask the Valvet distributor for a demo of the 2E SE. |
These new speakers, Tetra 606, are my third pair of Tetras. I am convinced IME and by the comments of some of the world's greatest musicians saying slam dunk things. WWW.TetraSpeakers.com It is very convincing. I do listen to the Tetra designer, Adria Butts, and Tetra owner, Ron Carter (the world's most recorded bass player), who loves his Leema Hydra II with his 606s. One of the great things about our wonderful hobby (other than constantly upgrading) is constantly learning. CD318, I do have new insight from your appropriately poetic comment: I get it... If I am not satisfied with the sound of my 300Bs and my Tetra 606s, I may contact the Valvet distributor and see if I can get a demo of the E2 SE. As wisely mentioned, I will have to be patient and not jump to conclusions but try to appreciate what that SS can do. I am inspired to circumvent other tube designs and go right for SS! Thank you all for your all your deeply felt feelings--another great thing about our hobby! |
A lot of great suggestions. I really appreciate being part of the Forum. I have learned A LOT! I asked a good friend in the Audio Industry this question. He may be a bit bit dated but he had 1 resounding suggestion-the Pass Labs Aleph! Has anyone had experience with these? Guess it would be the 3 or 5? Any preferences? I have heard a lot about the FW Sit 3 but I own a FW M2 and tried it. Both me and my wife missed the 300B SET sound a lot. I always listen to her opinion. At least, her high frequencies are better than mine. |
I actually found an Aleph 3 in Finland. Stereophile went nuts for this amp. https://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/674/index.html Think I prefer the 3 over the Aleph 5. My Tetra 606s arrive tomorrow! Think my 300B SETs will push them nicely. But this thread has got me very interested in some slam, detail and bass of a good SS! My speakers are 92db, very flat 8 ohms and simple crossovers with no resistors. They are 3 way with a 12" woofer, ATC dome midrange and Mundorf dipole AMT tweeter). The only remaining question is whether it would be better to have the Aleph 5 with 60 wpc or the Aleph 3 with 30 wpc?? |
Well, my long awaited Tetra 606s arrived yesterday. The big question was if my 9 watts of 300B SET would power them. The most consistent comments have pointed out that there is truly no replacement for the SET sound. However, comments that struck a nerve made reference to SS and SET being two different paradigms and that the SET sound was like a sonic screwdriver loosing the focus. Not to mention that one really doesn’t know until one tries. My 9 watts with the 92 dB Tetras sounds beautiful with the proviso that the bass is nicely there although not particularly tight and layered and all else is nicely there although not with particular slam. However, the SET sound is highly musical and organic. However, other owners of the 606s have commented that they are capable of all mentioned and more. On a good recording of a film screening using the 606s to play to a large audience, I heard only the MGM lion’s roar. Of the many, many times I have experienced the roar, this recording amazingly stood out. The roar was shockingly “real”, textured and layered. The amps used in this screening were the Bel Canto 500 watt monos. I can never forget how the speakers were grabbed by the amps. And this was in a MP4 YouTube! In my first post I mentioned the Tetra designer’s recommendation of matching the 606s with the Leema Hydra II amp at 148 watts into 8 ohms and 250ish into 4 ohms. The Tetras go down to 6 ohms but are a pretty flat 8 ohms. They also have simple, low part count crossovers with no resistors. And I don’t listen at very high levels. Although the Tetras go down to 27hz and have a big sound. It is very tempting to now want to listen to realistic sounding orchestras, etc.! All that with slam and headroom. It would be nice to be able to “dance the speakers around the room”. I think I would enjoy being able to crank the volume without it sounding “too loud”. Think I would get all that with a strong SS amp like the Leema. My inclination is to at least try an amp like the Leema and see if I can appreciate the new paradigm! |
I have been turned off by owning what should have been a really good sounding amp, the Viva Solista 845 based SET. Yes, it was boring compared to my 300B SET. I sold it quickly and went back to the 300B. I also have owned a good parallel 300B amp. Also, not satisfied. It lost a lot of the “magic”. The more I listen to my new Tetra 606s pushed by my 300B mono blocks the more I love it. I use them every morning for vinyl and every evening for 2 channel home theater. Last night It was a great submarine movie, “Hunter Killer”. All the explosions in the bass were thrilling as they should be. Was it the ultimate experience as with a high powered SS amp, no. Can I live with it, yes. Especially this morning as I delightfully listen to a gorgeous female voice singing Schubert lieder! Could ANY SS amp give me the same delight, no! |
Seriously considering getting a Bakoon 13R. It seems like the most different SS. Current drive instead of voltage drive. And I pretty much already know that it may be the ultimate headphone amp. IME very linear and pure is best with headphones. SET sound is too rich. Believe I can get a demo 13R. Very curious about how it will handle my my big speakers. Still do think about a strong SS amp. But it is absolutely true that 300B SET fans are a strong sub group in Audio. There are strong and real reasons why we are so devoted to our way of amplifying systems. However, I cannot discount the strong and real reasons why maybe the lion’s share are devoted to SS. I am certainly coming to well understand why this is. I will never forget the “realness” of that MGM lion’s roar! Speaking of lions... |
Hi Al, I am not technically oriented much. Only subjectively judge according to what I hear. I do trust my ears. For me, I believe I know and understand what music sounds like. What I hear in well designed 300B SETs is a sound that comes close to what I hear in real life. It is not only a response through my ears, it affects my nervous system. I am not easy with sound that strikes me as unnatural. When I listen to a nice recording of a beautiful human voice I relax. It is sublime. |
It is kind of impossible to find an Aleph 3! There are a couple of Aleph 5s but I think the 3 may be better? An amp designer friend says that "the lower the power the better". Don't know if that is necessarily true but may apply to SET amps? Should I try the Aleph 5? Not sure if it is as sellable as a 3 if I don't like it. Then there are the comments that there is NO SS amp that can satisfy a SET 300B guy. I don't know for sure if that is true. Three amps I would now be interested in trying are: Pass Aleph 3 (or 5?) Bakoon 13R Pass XA 25! BTW-The ongoing thread for months now on its 214th page is @whitecamaross discussion and many videos all about SS amps (cables, et al). Not a tube amp considered at all... well maybe an AR or two. |
Thanks for the more easily understood, non technical explanation Ralph. One comment that pertains to my exact situation is that when I do crank the volume on my 300B SET it does start to sound loud! I have put in a First Watt M2 amp into my system. Through what I have come to understand and accept is that SS may be more intellectual and SET more visceral. But the detail, bass and overall impact are things to be appreciate and enjoy. However, it is also clear that I am an emotional man, especially when it comes to my hi fi and even the two channel home theater that it doubles. I am forcing myself to continue to listen to the M2 but I don’t know if I will be able to sacrifice the visceral. I believe I could get that with say one of your amps but 38, I think, tubes and very low WAF. Could I get this with a push pull tube amp? Then a BIG SS plus is getting an amp with a lot of power and a lot of head room. I imagine the effortless sound of tons of headroom my be very attractive. Intellectual? Now listening to a great recording of a Telemann chamber orchestra and hearing the inner detail makes it quite enjoyable. I can imagine how additional headroom would add a lot! However, it still does not grab my subjective and emotional senses. Could SS be a more objective and intellectual exercise? |
Many years ago I had an Atma-Sphere S 30. It had beautiful clarity although at that time I felt it leaned toward a SS sound. Because of this animated and informative discussion, I have come to much better understand the qualitative elements that make for good SS sound and good 300B SET sound. It is surely a mistake to generalize, although the essential and main difference is that SS is an intellectual perspective and SET an emotional one. I just spent 3 days listening to my First Watt M2 in place of my 300Bs. As it was wisely said: it is a different paradigm. I did appreciate the tight bass and the fine details but missed the SET. Today I put the tubes back in and it was a big ahhhh... ! Instead of using my head and enjoying the qualities of the SS M2, I again am using my gut. It’s visceral. However, the good SS qualities and good ones of SET may be embodied in Atma-Sphere MA 60s. As we all know, Ralph has been a deeply seasoned source of knowledge and information. His statements about my intellectual/emotional understanding referring to how the brain interprets sound has been transformative. I believe I now am aware of the negative aspects of SET. That is, pthe lose of focus, distortion, etc. I believe the Atma-Spheres may balance clarity and emotion in a way that my evolved perspective can perceive and appreciate. If the thread continues, I will report on the results of the MA 60s. The Bakoon 13R is still of significant interest. I cannot discount how I may or may not care for it. But my understanding that tubes, especially in an OTL, have a physicality that cannot be duplicated. After all I have come to understand through this thread, I think that the Atma-Sphere is my best bet. Time will tell. |
Well, I have put down a deposit for my M 60 demo. It should be ready next week. And I should have it week after. Surely, I am excited to get it. One of the poetic comments in a post that gave me real insight into the SET sound was, I paraphrase: “SET sound is like a sonic screwdriver loosening the tone”. Metaphoric but clear, certainly when compared to SS tone, SET tone kind of has a looser tone relative to a SS exact tone. Another clear phrase is that, in SET tone, those who love it call it warm and those who don’t call it distortion. I do love that warm distortion but do look forward to maintaining much of the rich, organic SET nature while gaining SS clarity. Thus with the Atma-spheres. I was asked about my preamp and speakers. Audible Illusions M3B with John Curl gold phono boards and Tetra 606 speakers. Interesting is that I imagine the AI pre, being single ended and triode, may have a similar nature to the M 60 Atma-Sphere. Very neutral and clear without imposing much of its’ own sound signature. It is not particularly warm but also not particularly cold. Maybe also the Tetras. Very natural not imposing any sound of their own. And I do have a safeguard in mind. Am seriously considering a Zesto phono stage that definitely has a delicious classic tube sound. So, for music playback, I should be able to combine that tube sound with the more neutral signature of the Atma-Sphere. And for my HT evenings, enjoy the clarity, focus and accuracy of the M 60! |
Well, now I have been enjoying my Atma-Sphere M-60s for a few months. They are destination amps. Right away, I deeply knew that I would never go back to SETs! The Atmas have the sweet, natural sound of SET 300bs with the detail of a great SS amp. The SET was wonderful but it really had a warm and lovely sound that covered up much of the music. I love the metaphor of the “ Sonics screwdriver loosening the sound”. Yes, I do miss the beautiful tone of the SET but any day would choose the accuracy of the Atmas. Interesting that I grabbed a Bakoon HA-01 headphone amp from US Audio Mart for $725. (kind of happy that they seem to now be a formidable competitor to Audiogon) It should come next week. Very curious to hear how it compares to my current HA, David Berning’s prototype of his great MICROZOTL. I believe the Bakoon will be a different kind of sound. Seems it may be a new take on SS performance. I will have it on trial. Let’s see if I keep it. |
Hey, thanks for being happy for me! Absolutely, through this thread and the advise given, I was successfully able to make the huge leap away from decades of SET-300B and 45. And being able to finally hear what my speakers are capable! It seems most speakers love more that 8 or 1 1/2 watts. 60 watts of the M-60s is plenty for my 91db 8 ohm Tetra 606s. Actually, I loved my Atma-Sphere amps so much that I sold my cool Audible Illusions M3B with John Curl phono and bought a great Atma MP-3 preamp. Especially since I rolled all the tubes for good NOS, it blows away the AI and is the perfect match for my M-60! And with the phono section of the MP-3 I was able to change my plan to get a Zesto Deluxe phono stage and another good IC. The phono in the MP-3 is amazingly good.The amps and preamp continue to open up as they break in and now the main quest is to search for great recorded LPs. Although the system even makes so so recordings enjoyable revealing the performances unlike ever. It surely is satisfying to reach a total destination feeling through months of the quest for the best! |
I got my Bakoon HPA-01 the other day. I am super happy with my Atmas but, man, the Bakoon thing is for real! It has musicality and incredible transparency, it has most of the great qualities of SS-detail, bass, dynamics with no harshness or glare. The sound is addictive! It is my new headphone amp with my $30K CD setup. Bakoon uses a current drive Satri circuit, They say, and I agree, it is like looking through a clear window. Indeed, a new take on SS. And it is an integrated. If anyone asked me what amp to buy, I would say-Bakoon! |
Some more thoughts on Bakoon: I clearly understand that a headphone system is quite different from speakers. At least with headphones, the Bakoon HPA-01 headphone amp has amazing qualities well beyond my Berning MICROzotl. However, when it comes to realistically reproducing the sound of an acoustic instrument or voice, the Berning wins. There are key superiorities to tubes and OTLs (Berning’s OTLish). But the truth of the Bakoon is spectacular on most passages. Now listening to Sgt. Pepper’s as if for the first time! After going through this thread for months, there were several posts pointing toward Bakoon. I am happy that I took that advise. |
Many speak highly of Nelson’s work. Whitecamaros seems to prefer the 250.8 above all. I surely have heard of the prowess of the 30.8. I have a First Watt M2 which sounds quite SS. Ralph has developed a Class D amp which he says is very similar sounding to his OTLs. I hope to eventually get to test a prototype. The Bakoon does not sound like tubes but it recreates pace and structure in a way that holds music together in an unusual and addictive manner. And it produces detail that other amps, tube or SS blur. But ultimately, the Atmas produce a tone that is just natural and beyond any I have heard. |
Yes, I am now an owner and major fan of AGD. I am so impressed with my $8350 Audions that I am considering upgrading to the top line Gran Vivaces. However, I can’t imagine any amp sounding better than my entry level AGD Audions. But that is always the case with upgrading. One thing I now know for sure, I have never heard any amp that competes with the SQ of AGD. Class D truly can sound very good. But AGD amps are based on a patented GAN module developed specifically for Audio. Other GAN amps available use GAN transistors used in radar, lidar, etc. The result is that I now hear a level of transparency that reveals the heart and soul of musicians. The experience is new, transformative and unlike anything I have ever heard in 50 years. A “fan boy”? Boy hoody! |
My final speakers are the Canadian Tetra 606. To my ear, most real sounding speakers I have heard. TetraSpeakers.com unique website and company with rave endorsements from among the world’s top musicians. They know what music sounds like. Herbie Hancock has 5 pair (including 606s). Keith Richards went on tour with his pair. |
The Tetra 606s are 91db and 6 ohms minimal. Think that the Audions well power them. But IME, all speakers like more power. And, I think, the Gran Vivace also has noticeably fuller sound that takes things to a different level. Although I also think that there will be significantly diminishing returns. The Audions are overachievers. |
