jon2020 Dear George,
Yes, we know, we know. It can’t be; it can never sound better because a preamp can only add colorations/distortions. We get it. But, if someone finds adding a preamp to the source pleasing to his ears, so be it. It's his ears, his system, his pleasure. Why spoil it?
Yes and I've always said if you like that colouration/distortion so be it (you could probably do the same with a graphic eq). But don't anyone it magically makes music that's not on the source to start with, that's just voodoo speak. Great, end of discussion.
Cheers George Have a nice day! |
Ditto back to you.
The audio design master, not just some reviewer, tell him. Nelson
Pass,
"We’ve
got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At
least 10 db more.
Think
of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock,
you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain
stage can make it back up.
Routinely
DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a
volume control.
What
could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive
parts. No Feedback, no worrying about what type of Capacitors – just musical
perfection. And
yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the
life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being
serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the
volume control up compared to an active preamp."
Cheers George have a nice day also |
In your first opening post you ask the question "Is the source or preamp flawed?" then you cite and hail what seems to be an answer to your own question to it buy Robert Deutsch. Then in your very next post you PREACH "One day, I tried a preamp in between and there was no turning back. The improvement was immediate and substantially so." So it looks like you have made up your own mind even before this thread even got started. I believe you wanted to invite confrontation, then wanted to change the thread topic to "How a preamp can make things better" when things didn't go your way, maybe your a preamp sales man who knows. You have a good day too. Cheers George
|
OMG, of course he's does he's in business to make money as well, I also make a product which I'm doing harm to by promoting direct connection as well, but we both call it for what it is. It's just a voodoo trip that somehow a preamp can magically make more "real music" that isn't there to start with on the recording that's coming from the source, it can only colour with distortion. If preamps are not totally transparent, all they can do is to add colouration or distortion not music And yes as I've said many times, you and others may like this colouration distortion, but please don't say to others here that they add music to what's not there recorded originally, that's just giving the uninformed false information.
Cheers George |
jon2020 The source introduces colorations or distortions of its own and a high quality matching preamp ameliorates some if not all of these, to result in sonic improvement.
What intrigues me is what I hear when I add a preamp in the chain
I get more :-
1. dynamics
2. air around instruments
3. tonal body to instruments
4. solid bass foundation for orchestral works
5. soundstage depth, width and height
6. liquid flow of musical notes
7. musicality or PRAT
Really???? Pure unadulterated voodoo, it’s not a magic box that can detect and find incremental faults in a massive haystack and fix them, all the preamp can do is to colour faults with it’s own distortions, and which preamp with which distortions do you pick because they all sound different. And if these preamps were totally pure and transparent to the source, they would all sound the same, AND JUST LIKE A DIRECT CONNECTION. And really, wouldn’t a sane man change the source with all these faults, instead of throwing a very expensive band-aid (preamp) on it and hoping it’s the correct one. Cheers George |
|
Maybe you have not read the Forum Rules of this site, this is just one of them, you do not have the luxury of taking the topic off subject, even if you did start it. Audiogon Forum Rules What we will decline: Posts that are off-topic or casual bantering. http://forums.audiogon.com/fr/moderated_guide.html
Cheers George |
Members or non members that see the title of the thread open it because they’re interested in reading about the title and maybe posting their views. That’s why moderators on all forums I know try to keep them on track, otherwise it ends up mess, and can be detrimental to the site. |
The issue to hand as you state it was, the title to this thread
"Is the source or preamp flawed?"!!!
Not "how a preamp can make things sound better "
Cheers George |
Just to add to that phusis I'll post this up again from Nelson Pass, and going direct is an even better solution again.
"Nelson
Pass,
We’ve
got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At
least 10 db more.
Think
of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock,
you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain
stage can make it back up.
Routinely
DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a
volume control.
What
could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive
parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical
perfection.
And
yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the
life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being
serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the
volume control up compared to an active preamp."
Cheers George
|
justubes2 So if a capable player or dac could drive the amp in a particular system correctly would lead to a very optimised setup and sound great,would’nt this be correct instaead of adding cost by adding a preamp and cabling?
So correct justtubes., unless you like the colouration/distortion (some call it flavour) of the said preamp, as they all sound different. It’s also impossible for a preamp to make the sources music in a system more dynamic than a direct connection. If any thing they can could only do the opposite, unless they have a DBX dynamic range expander circuit inbuilt, and we all know how disgusting they sound. As for a preamp getting more "music, ambience ect" from the source that is impossible and pure voodoo, unless it has microphonic tubes or a systhesiser built in.
Cheers George |
Really??? last sentence very first post I bite my tongue Al, we won't need the peacemaker, sorry. Cheers George |
By adding an expensive active preamp down the line to a flawed source, you can magically fix it with it's own set of colourations/distortions, "good luck with that."
What happens if the preamp is the mythical "prefect preamp" "sounding like straight wire with gain", then your hearing the flawed source for what it is, what then.
You change the source to one you do like the sound of.
Cheers George
|
Well put Al, you have missed your vocation, your a peacemaker. That last paragraph clearly and concisely hits it on the head.
Cheers George |
If McGowans statement is correct.
"DirectStream is more than capable of driving the power amplifier directly."
Then it has an active output buffer which is as good if not better than most preamps outputs have, especially tube ones.
If not correct, then it must have something that is stopping it from driving a poweramp direct and not as good as he makes out, and will have the same problem driving interconnects and a preamps input stage, as the loads and design are very similar to a poweramps input stages.
Cheers George
|
I don't know why passive is being bought into the subject.
Just to correct something, going direct as the OP did is not passive, it's still active as his PS Audio dac's volume is done before the active output buffer stage which is an active drive to the interconnects and poweramp/s
Cheers George
|
11-29-15: Nsgarch
George, I agree with your remark Yes, and just to further my post, most sources with solid state output stages, are as good some even better to be able to drive a poweramp and interconnect direct, than many preamps can. In in case of tube preamps, most solid state sources will drive even better them. As for quoting Paul McGowans turn around on this very subject, it's funny he should do this just before he released his new active preamp onto the market. Cheers George |
If they were all the mythical "perfect preamp" and sounded like "a straight wire with gain", then they would then all sound the same, as if you were direct connected from source to amps.
Why do all active preamps sound different? It's because they all colour the sound with different distortions.
They CANNOT add anything to the recorded music from the source that wasn't there to start with, they can only colour it with distortion, a bit like a synthesizer would do.
Those that say active preamps extract more detail, ambience or music from the source than direct connection are talking pure voodoo.
Those that say they like the colouration distortions that certain preamps bring to their system are being honest to themselves.
Cheers George
|
"component matching" "performance is optimised"
That is why there are electronic laws of "Ohm and Kirchoff" and others to be adhered to, by not doing is voodoo.
Cheers George
|
