Is the Monarchy DIP effective?


Considering buying a Monarchy DIP between a Sony 7700 dvd and a CAL Sigma 24/96 dac. Would I benefit using one and how much of a difference can I expect?
bradz
I found a useful improvement between a Cal Delta/Alpha combination - principally in improved refinement, smoothness (less grain), and resolution. With better two box combos like my Theta Data III and Gen Va DAC there was a degradation in the sound, yet the Genesis Digital Lens improved things hugely. I suspect you will get an improvement in your system, that it will be roughly as I describe, but the quality of both your separates is such that the Monarchy may be only a marginal improvement.
I used the previous version (not the 24/96 version). It worked very well for me when I had a marginal transport. When I upgraded the transport the DIP had little effect. My experience with Jitter reducers is they work very differently with different equipment. If you can try it before you buy it (or have a return guarantee), do that. Wish I could be more help, but you will probably have a tough time finding someone who has used it with the same equipment as you have.
Audio advisor has a money-back guarantee - what do you have to lose? (I got the DIP for my Marantz CD63se/theta DAC and it was a dramatic improvement).
I have a Genesis Digital lens which I think is the same thing. The improvement is very noticable. It does have a large problem with poping though. Timing errors. I have heard that this is a matter of matching the right digital cables but Im not sure. I have emailed Genesis a couple of times but they have ignored my plea for help. I wonder if companies releize how much an unanswered email hurts business.
The Genesis is somewhat different. In simplistic terms the Monarchy DIP is just a phase locked loop jitter reducer, while the Genesis Digital Lens stores the data stream and re-clocks it, as well as re-dithering.
While I have not tried a Monarchy DIP, I have used either an Audio Alchemy DTI, DTI 2.0 or DTI Pro for several years. All of them effected some level of improvement in clarity, bass response and tonal balance. They also seem to reduce the level of tension that is frequently associated with digital playback. While the degree of improvement varied with different transports, usually the degree of improvement was greater with cheaper transports and almost mandatory with some. Using a jitter reduction device will require an extra digital interconnect, but imho, I consider them a requirement to achieve acceptable digital sound. If the Monarchy can be obtained on a trial basis, it is definitely worth trying.
I would suggest the camelot technology 5.1 jitter reduction device as it covers all the basis of digital streams and is supposedly an improved version of the audio alchemy jitter reduction boxes
previous post--grammatical correction bases for basis
I have a MkI DIP that I've used for several years. I've found its effectiveness ultimately hinges on both transport quality and the DAC's receiver section in particular. It brought significant improvements to a older CD player's toslink signal when feeding an older receiver chip. However, with either a quality low jitter transport or a newer Crystal receiver chip (the CS8414 for example), the results were marginal. I would imagine that for the best low jitter transports and DACs, the DIP may actually degrade performance. I suspect the DIP reclocks via its PLL no better than a certain design limited level of jitter (I can't imagine it would ever be better than 250 ps, considering the age of its design). 250 ps was considered a very good jitter specification five years ago - if that's better than your transport and DAC's native jitter levels, you've gained; if not, you've taken a step backwards. I believe the latest Crystal receivers have intrinsic jitter around 150-200 ps. The DIP doesn't compare to the new technology jitter busters, IMHO (the 2 ps output D2D-1 that I now use comes to mind). But at its price and in the right system, the DIP is still a good value.
Postscript to my earlier post: I also had a Sigma II 24/96 and it had the CS8414 receiver chip. The results using a DIP with this DAC (coaxial digital - not toslink) were slightly noticable, but undramatic, and undetectable with a quality transport. By the way, the current jitter boxes still use PLL to some extent, so it should not be discounted as passe. The difference is that the new boxes use a high precision second reclocking stage that the DIP does not.
Would the Sony 7700 dvd be considered a good transport with low jitter?
I am not familiar enough with that machine to say. If you can ever get a response from them, you may want to try asking Sony or perhaps your dealer. Jitter is a more mainstream design issue than it was five or six years ago, so I would think all manufacturers consider jitter attenuation within their price point constraints. I have a CEC transport, which I know has low design jitter. By the way, don't overlook your cables as an additional jitter source. Improper cabling can add tons of it via reflection.
Happened to open my dac earlier and noticed that it uses the CS 8414.I'm using a Cardas 300b digital cable between the dvd and dac that was included in the sale. Haven't done any comparison yet but, considering the Better Cable ultra digital cable. What dac and digital cable are you using? Think I'll try to call Sony and find out the specs for the jitter. Thanks, Bradz
I'm presently using an Assemblage DAC 3.1 with D2D-1 connected with an I2Se cable. Transport to D2D-1 is a one meter Illuminations DV-75 RCA. I've actually got an extra DV-75 that I was considering selling, as I'm on the lookout for AES/EBU digital right now. Cardas makes a good cable, though. For the Sigma II, you don't need a super premium cable - a good one will do. Also, give some thought to trying an NOS 5751 in place of the 12AX7. A Raytheon 5751 really transforms this DAC. Tube World occasionally has them for around $20. A bigger pop than spending $300 on a digital cable. Also, clean the tube pins with DeOxit for an extra "tweak".
Think I'll do some tube rolling with the dac. Seems like a better idea than cable swaping. I have the DeOxit by Caig that I'll try also. One more question: What does your system consist of? Thanks, Brad
CEC transport, Assemblage digital front end, SF Line 1 with NOS 6922s, MF A3cr, Thiel CS1.5s. Cables are Tara RSC Master Gen II and Kimber 8tc. Tice conditioning with dedicated 30 amp AC circuit. And a Magnum-Dynalab FT101A to catch NPR once in a while.
Nice system Sgmlaw!Think I'll wait on the DIP and do some tube rolling. Thanks for all the responses.Bradz
I now plan to use my Oppo BDP 83 as a transport to a McCormack DAC-1. Connection would be via Toslink.

Would a Monarchy DIP (not the 24/96 version) or an Audio Alchemy DTI V2.0 be worth inserting to the signal chain? Would I get any SQ benefits or would it be detrimental?
I'd be connecting the Oppo to the DIP or DTI v2 via Toslink and then connected to the DAC-1 via Digital Coax. Possibly the Black Cat Veloce from Chris Sommavigo.

Thanks everyone and advise when you can.
I own a Oppo BDP83 and a Monarchy DIP classic. However, I use the Oppo for video/surround only. I run the Monarchy between a Wadia 170i and outboard DAC. Although this doesn't necessarily answer your question, what I have found with the Monarchy is a definite improvement. If it will improve your "signal chain" in your configuration, I cannot say.
I've owned the Monarchy DIP and its benefits are marginal in my experience and with quality modern digital gear its probably not much of a benefit. I have no desire to own it again. On the other hand its relatively inexpensive, so....YMMV.
Jedinite - The jitter measurements for another Oppo player (the DV970H) using SPDIF were multiples higher than other budget DVD players according to measurements taken in 1 2007 generally-positive Stereophile review by Wes Phillips. I would look for BDP 83 measurements but that suggests that a DIP would help with your model.
I just tried the Monarchy 48/96 with my Squeezebox Touch and I just sent it back.
I found no benefit using it.
Bradz,

Ozzy needs to qualify his answer as he did not do the job correctly: What Ozzy bought & tried out in his system was the Monarchy DIP 48/96 Upsampler unit. This unit's main job is async rate conversion with jitter reduction I would say as a #2 job.
Monarchy used to make another unit called the DIP 24/96, whose main job was jitter reduction. it did NOT upsample. IMHO & being a DIP 24/96 owner, I would say that the DIP 24/96 is much better at jitter reduction.
In fact, Monarchy used to recommend that people use BOTH the DIP 24/96 AND the DIP 48/96 in that order between the transport & the DAC for best results in jitter reduction. The fact that the DIP 24/96 was put 1st in line indicated its ability to deal w/ jitter better than the DIP 48/96 Upsampler. Unfortunately, the DIP 24/96 has been discontinued.
However, all is not lost: go to Monarchy Audio's website:
http://www.monarchyaudio.com/
On the left side, click on "DIP".
Scroll down & take a look at the "DIP CLassic" - you can read its specs. This little unit's main job is jitter reduction & it will accept all sampling freq between 32KHz & 96KHz so your Sony DVD7700 playing redbook CD should work just fine. I don't think that it decodes DVDs - Monarchy says that.

Ozzy: if you want to give it another shot, try the Monarch DIP Classic. It might work better. You probably will get the most bang for your buck by buying both the DIP CLassic & the DIP 48/96 & putting the DIP 48/96 after the DIP Classic. OTOH, the jitter of the SB Touch might already be good enough, as I wrote in the other thread a couple days back.
Bombaywalla, to add another box plus digital cables and power cables is too much to spend for a maybe, iffy improvement.
12-17-10: Ozzy
Bombaywalla, to add another box plus digital cables and power cables is too much to spend for a maybe, iffy improvement.
understand....
Actually it kind of depends. I had posted in another thread that my SB3 into Benchmark dac was not improved with the DIP 48/96 upsampler. I figured the Benchmark upsampled itself and the extra step not necessary (and cost, and cables, though I had one sitting around so no real investment). When I upgraded the Benchmark to the Berkeley, I tried the DIP 48/96 again and it was an obvious improvement. Soundstage became wider and deeper, more, much more, resolution. (it truly was night and day). I figured the Berkeley didn't upsample and the readout on the berkeley went from 44.1 to 96, not a bad thing as it was now being fed a 96k signal. I liked it so much that I upgraded the SB3 to the Touch, and then, a month later, the DIP to the Combo. Again, an improvement, probably due to the clock in the Combo. I think any improvement the DIP may afford is dependent on the dac it is going into; if the dac upsamples, the upsampler should probbaly not make an improvement, though I would be interested to see what Ozzy's experience may have been with the Combo.
though I would be interested to see what Ozzy's experience may have been with the Combo
Cerrot, that's exactly what I was recommending to Ozzy - either buying the DIP Classic & the DIP 48/98 Upsampler OR, as you suggested, the DIP Combo. I believe that the Combo is the Classic & 48/96 all rolled into one unit.
Cerrot, Bombaywalla, I finally found a Monarchy Combo to try. Should get it in a few days.
12-22-10: Ozzy
Cerrot, Bombaywalla, I finally found a Monarchy Combo to try. Should get it in a few days.
excellent! do keep us posted. I hope that it gives you the improvement that you are looking for....
Just purchased a monarchy 48 and a monarchy 24/96 and CI audio ps and a ps audio 300 for my I transport and front end soure... i transport, dac & hp amp. If I use the DIP in tandem ,what order should it be ? It will go to a wadia 27 dac. Any recomendation for digital cables?
Good luck Ozzy. Hope it works for you.

Rpssb, ot sure what a Monarchy 48 is; the 24/96 should go right before the dac.
Just received the Monarchy Combo today. I plan on hooking it up to my Squeezebox Touch later today.

So to make sure I give it a proper evaluation, does the unit require some break in time?
Yes on breaking in. Mine needed 100 hrs. Sounded better after first 40. Very bad out of the box.
Been breaking in the Monarchy Combo non stop for 4 days now using a Purist Audio Burn in disc.

So, today I tried the Sqeezebox Touch with and without the Monarchy Combo.
Thus far , at times I think there is an improvement with the Monarchy Combo, other times not sure.
I sure wish the difference would be greater or more easily perceived. Perhaps it still needs more break in time.

Anyway, I still have some time to evaluate the Monarchy...
Ozzy, do you have the combo set to upsample to 96k?
Cerrot, Yes I have it set at 96K and I also have tried it at 44.1.
Ok, just tried this morning again with switching the Monarchy Combo unit in and out many times.
I am hearing a clearer sound including the vocal and there is a bit more bite or snap to the instruments. Perhaps it is a keeper. The 96 is better than the 44.1.
Cerrot, did you find using the Balanced digital out to be an advantage ?
Since all my other equipment is balanced, to me the Monarchy sounds a little better using the balanced digital out.
Ozzy good to read that the Monarchy Combo worked for the better for you.:-)
Just purchased a monarchy 48 and a monarchy 24/96 and CI audio ps and a ps audio 300 for my I transport and front end soure... i transport, dac & hp amp. If I use the DIP in tandem ,what order should it be ? It will go to a wadia 27 dac. Any recomendation for digital cables?
Rpssb  (Threads | Answers | This Thread)
Rpssb, place the DIP 24/96 first -- this units job is jitter reduction only. Second, place the DIP 48/96 unit -- this units job is primarily sample rate conversion & secondarily jitter reduction. Hope that this makes the connection order clear. Thanks.
Well, after a very tedious comparison with or without the Monarchy Combo in the signal chain, I have concluded with my ears and my system that the Combo does little if anything to improve upon the sound of the Squeezebox Touch.

As I stated earlier in the thread, at times I thought there was an improvement.
But I think that the occasional ray of improvement was just mind over matter.

I will be sending the Monarchy Combo unit back Monday.
Well, after a very tedious comparison with or without the Monarchy Combo in the signal chain, I have concluded with my ears and my system that the Combo does little if anything to improve upon the sound of the Squeezebox Touch.

As I stated earlier in the thread, at times I thought there was an improvement.
But I think that the occasional ray of improvement was just mind over matter.

I will be sending the Monarchy Combo unit back Monday.
12-31-10: Ozzy
Well, after a very tedious comparison with or without the Monarchy Combo in the signal chain......
you honestly tried & it did not work out for you - so be it. Too bad for you but also it might be that the SB Touch is already very good?
Ozzy, I use the spidf from the touh into the combo and aes/ebu out to my dac. Sorry you didn;t experience the Combo's benefits.
Bombaywalla, Cerrot, Thanks for all your help.
Cerot I did use the aes/ebu to my dac and I also tried it with the coaxial using fairly pricey cables. I also used a Synergistic Research Tesla Power cable.

So at least I have found that with my system the Monarchy combo is not needed. I think the Touch may already have pretty low jitter.