You guessed right. I have owned both Tara and Cardas. Both are good but different. Now I have Transparent Ref on non biwireable speakers. I love the trans wire. Finally, I'm in sales, are most are ethical. So please don't assume otherwise!
Try them out yourself. You can through the "Cable Company".
Frankly I own MIT. In my system they performed overall the best. This is very system dependent. So take what your sales rep states with a grain of salt. BTW, I also am in sales and do not put us in the same light. Some of us have scruples.
I'll bet he does'nt sell the ones that suck and has never heard them. Do not buy something just because the other one supposedly sucks. Look at politicians. They always say the other guy sucks, when actually they all do.
Simplicity! They are all great in the right system and they all suck in the wrong one. The final pieces of the system, the cables, are vital and need to be demoed with your equiptment. That is the only way you can be sure.
Yes, cables are system dependent,as my predecessors point out. But; it is funny how, in much of audio, certain brands are highly revered,and command great resale,and certain others ,you have to give away. Although the brand you have to give away may be better. You said this guy was local? If your seriously interested; take home broken in ones/with exchange privilege. Audioquest,and Cardas have great resale value. If you buy them for a good used price you hardly stand to get hurt.This can be said of the other brands /mit & trans.as well.Your dealer is in buisness to make $. Don't "use" him.(As in get his advice, & demo/then buy used.)
Your salesman's advise is worthless because he is totally biased and not at all subjective. I agree that you have to try all the cables in your system before making a decision. I went through it and while it was not that much fun, it saved me a lot of time and money in the long run.
I personally had very little luck with either the Cardas or Tara. With my single post speakers, Transparent Ref XL worked great. I eventually replaced them Nordost Valhalla which I currently have and love.
You have to test the cables in your system. And it's a pain but the only way to find what fits and what won't.
There is a local dealer with whom I've dealt for quite some time. They are good, honest as I expect any salesmen to be, and quite technically capable. That said, it's never ceased to amaze me over the years that whenever I inquired about a line they didn't carry, it always came up short - they found various nits to pick. However, this line we have here will best it in ___________ (fill in the blank). The irony of this was brought home to me when they carried both Krell and Levinson, heaping praise on both (as you might imagine). But at some point they had a tiff with Krell and no longer carried the line: yes, you guessed it: ask about any Krell product and they will trot out a litany of faults of the piece and why Levinson is better. Guess the moral is that their honesty tends to be selective as a function of what they sell vis-a-vis the competition. Just be aware of it and you can filter the BS from the truth.
Without meaning to offend any salesmen in this forum, I will say here that if I ever hear a sales rep say that thus and such carried by the competition is better, I'll no doubt fall over in a dead faint.
As for your salesman's comment about network cables, it's bunk, too. Whatever effect those networks have, they'll have on any signal passing through them.
I have had the same experience as Adamanteus, where a salesman will disparage a brand he doesn't carry. I hate this. In fact, when I go to a new shop I will sometimes bring up another, competing brand to gauge the reaction. If a salesman starts pooping on a brand I know well and have had great results with, it ruins any credibility he might build with me. At that point, I figure the guy is just "moving metal," couldn't care less if I get the best component for me, or if I ever come back to his shop; he just wants to sell me today what's best for him. Such behavior is pathetic, especially in a field where buyers can become loyal and will come back many times over many years.
Your salesman is telling the truth alright - as long as it works for him. I was in sales years ago and management DOES put pressure on to push products that have a better profit margin. Not only in audio but everyplace. This is life and that's a fact. That does NOT mean there are no honest salespeople, it only means that most honest salespeople who work on commission don't take home big fat paychecks every week.
What you want to do (and it takes time) is find a dealer you like and you can deal with for MOST of your gear. It takes time to develop a relationship...lots of time.
Your salesperson may be relating his own experiences truthfully so I can't argue there. That said: I must emphasise that my own experiences with "networked design cables on single wire post speakers" has been very satisfactory.
3chihuahuas: if you believed "your sales guy" was spoutin' bull dung, why didn't you tell him? i find it fascinating that so few consumers - of damn near anything - are unwilling to confront uppity salespersons, even politely and diplomatically. my view is that silence in the face of bullshit begets more and smellier bullshit. unless you're in the fertilizer biz, speak up or stay away. otherwise, you're gonna' wonder one of these days why everyone's avoiding you while simultaneously holding tight their nostrils. just my opinion, FWIW. -kelly
3chihuahuas: if you believed "your sales guy" was spoutin' bull dung, why didn't you tell him? i find it fascinating that so few consumers - of damn near anything - are willing to confront uppity salespersons, even politely and diplomatically. my view is that silence in the face of bullshit begets more and smellier bullshit. unless you're in the fertilizer biz, speak up or stay away. otherwise, you're gonna' wonder one of these days why everyone's avoiding you while simultaneously holding tight their nostrils. just my opinion, FWIW. -kelly
Kelly, sometimes I have to "hold my tongue" and walk away in many cases because if I get started I may not have the control to hold back if things get heated and the bullshit is flying out of some fool's mouth. I am very passionate about the truth, and have a bad temper that I am not proud of. (My silver hair used to be red.) Salesmen who call on me in my vet practice are very, very careful. I have been known to excort them to the front door and somehow that word spreads. [:)] I wish I had thicker skin, really. Charlie
Some salesmen are very honest - usually the ones making either a lot of money, or barely any money.
A year or so back I visited a local high end dealer. I said I was buying a set of speakers and an amp. I mentioned that I had my heart set on a Wadia 850/860 w/direct outputs, so I would not be needing a preamp. The guy ripped up my choice in front of me, insisting that Wadia was garbage & that I should look at 'good' players like the ones he sold. I read his store newletter which had a similar bitter diatribe against Wadia. I thought 'why?'. Anyway, a few months later I mentioned the 'odd' experience to a local friend/audiophile. He told me this guy used to be the area Wadia dealer and had gotten into a fight with Wadia. My friend had actually purchased a Wadia player from this man, and was given the holy hosanna's about how great Wadia was at the time. Goes to show.
I would really like to see some of these obnoxious windbag 'experts' like him lined up and asked to identify, unseen, the equipment they sell. Honestly I find it sometimes takes me a few days to determine if something is better or worse.
Of all equipment I feel that cables are indeed the most system dependent. Try a few out, and see what you like !
Yes he is absolutely telling the truth. Just kidding, although I do own Tara Labs, I would never say brand x sucks. That's total sales bs. If a store rips a product they do not carry I totally disregard any comment. I've even had a high end store tell me one line was garbage and we don't sell garbage. Well six months later they sold garbage. Not all sales people are bullshitters,but just like any other profession, people that do bs seem to get far. I think many people like sunshine blown up their ass. I don't play that, many questions I ask I already know the answer to by doing research. That way I find it easier to identify whether a salesman is knowledgeable or just a bs-er. When it comes to opinion, I'm strong enough to believe my own. I even disagree with the ultimate salesmen who write for magazines on many issues. Hell, it's my money and I'll spend it on what I like. I don't care who approves.
Interestingly, an experienced Audiogon member (who has researched and auditioned many wires) is very likely to have much broader, and more in-depth knowledge than many sales people about wires, IMHO.
I've done a lot of business at my nearest hifi shop but they only carry Tara and Kimber "wires", and I wanted a broader choice so I went through The Cable Co. and in the course of auditioning and selecting ICs and spkr cables, I actually learned more, about many more wires, than a small store sales guy could. I now consider myself much more knowledgeable about wires than many sales people.
And the interesting thing is that they know, that I know more than them, about many more "wires". Of course the exceptions are sales people that are also heavily into audio and thus may have broad knowledge about wires, but usually, because of price breaks, they will use the store brand(s).
It's not my intent to insult sales reps. here-- many are knowledgeable and courteous, but they still want to sell their store products, and in fact they may well believe that their wires really are best. But are they best for everything? I trust my ears when it comes to "my" system. Cheers. Craig.
Are his lips moving? Then no.
Best way to buy speaker cables is to stroll into the audio "salon" with a 10 foot pair of large gauge radio shack speaker wires rolled up in your hand. Tell him you are looking for something that sounds better, but costs less. This will get his attention...and let him know right up front that YOU know what you are doing...and that YOU are not a person to be lied to. Seriously...all salesmen are trained to explain the features/benefits of the products they sell and explain why they are superior to the competition. This gets harder to do when their product is not obviously better...or is in fact obviously worse than the competition. Even harder still when the differences (as is the case with audio cables) are highly subjective when used with so many different componets. At this point, the salesmen with less skill and /or product knowledge will then tend to "dis" the competition. I personally would not buy from a salesman that does this...but being a salesman myself and knowing the hobby pretty well, will usually end up speaking with the manager or owner. When buying IC or speaker cable I always ask to take demo pair home to try in my system at home. If I decide this is what I want, I go back to the store, without the demos, and offer him 70% of retail for the demos or offer to bring the demos back tomorrow. NO ONE has ever asked me to bring the demo back. At the very least, this will establish a relationship with the manager/owner of the store and remember...he is a salesman too. The best way to keep from being lied to is to do your homework and be a knowledgeable buyer. Over time, when you walk into the business...the less-than-knowledgeable sales folks will head to the back of the store. If they don't, I ask them to replace the "big buck" speaker cables in their most expensive "reference" system on display with my radio shack wires and ...
Hi folks. My internet "dot com" company went bankrupted over the weekend and I had no access to the web until I came into work this morning. First and foremost, I'd like to thank you all for the posts. In response to Cornfedboy, I'd love to stand up and tell my local sales guy that I smell cow dung in his breath everytime he tries to sell me something, but I can't for two reasons. One, I didn't have enough experience about networking cables to challenge him. Secondly, even if I did have expertise in about the topic, I would mostlikely hold my frustration back because the dealers have one up on me. Like most of you, I have only a handfull of hifi salons in my area. There's definately a clear line between the small boutique and the chain stores. Most of my bad experiences were at the chain stores (the bigger stores that focus more on home theatres probabably due to better margins). The fact still remains that I can't really piss these guys off because I don't want to drive 50 miles away the next time I want to audition something. Can you imagine if your local dealers have your picture posted in the back offices as the customer from hell? Every since I have found Audiogon, I find myself purchasing less components from my local dealers. Come to think of it, I think I visit them more now a days to audition components I learned about on Audiogon. I know it's not fair to the dealers or us consumers (considering mark-up they charges us), but this is one main reason why I put up with their bull crap and at the same time I don't buy anything from the sales guys that strings me along. How are your relations with your local dealers? Are you finding similar problems? Do they treat you different knowing that you're a picky customer who often audition items but seldom buy anything. One more thing before I end this post, I have two cars-a BMW 5 series and a Toyota Corolla (my commuter car). I definately noticed that I get much more attention/service when I drive the BMW to audition products than when I drive my Corolla. Isn't that funny?