2. amps-preamps
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Is McIntosh really Hi-Fi, finally MC452

OK, I'm about worn-out looking at hi-fi amps, maybe not super hi-fi, but what 8K can get you as a new reference point.

So many amps have serious user shortcomings. They either eat your power lines to putty at idle (X350.5) or get so hot they likely wear out in short order (Plinius SA-103 and even the X350.5).

Parasound Halo JC-1's and ANTHEM P2 seem to be more reasonbable on the idle power and heat equation as far as "typical" consideration go....Then I come across the McIntosh MC452.

I know, McIntosh makes romantic "feeling" amplifiers. But wait...the MC452 seems to have turned a tide of sorts. It's NOT your fathers McIntosh. But which son or daughter's piece is it?

The MC452 unit make tremendous sense on paper. Good current (I use C4' series II speakers), reasonable price, seems to be power efficient at idle (I don't mind using power WHEN I'm listening to it!), USA manufacture with superb build quality.

How does this unit's sound fit into the world of modern SS amps, though? Putting aside lousy usability and just listening quality, what's the score on the MC452's sound compared to Plinius SA-103, PASS LABS X350.5 or the Ayer V-5xe?

I like a sound that is NOT impressionistic and blurry, and where the music sounds like it went through the chamber in the "fly" movie, where everything that went into the time and location chamber is fused together on the other side. No, I like a more rich deliniated sound. More red than pink if you will. Pink doesn't know what color it wants to be, it's "fly" created with white and red blended). I like red to stay red if that's what it is.

Is the MC452 amplifier really fast and detailed relative to what is expected of SS designs? Is McIntosh really letting lose of the old house sound with a real contender? I know, you don't think of McIntosh with detailed accurate sound. Are we missing something? Are we being fair with this new amplifier that seems to have changed it's spots?

Those who bought this amp, what were your experience? I have to drive awhile to get near a dealer, so a spot check of general consensus would be nice before I waste gas that could be put in the bank for an amplifier.
rower30

Showing 6 responses by rower30

rower30 OP
211 posts
 
OK, point taken BUT, the product can still be placed in the scheme of things at it's price point (8K) with the other amps I've listed. So richer or poorer isn't an issue. What does it do well and not so well. True, each will go a different direction on the amps character. I want to know what that character is. A comment that it isn't for all is beside the point.

To just wander off and exclude it from "comparison" and simply say I like it without it being based on it's metrics is silly, too. The product has to stand somewhere on it's own four feet.

So I still don't have an answer here.
is it fast sounding.
is it tight sounding.
is it hard sounding.
is it soft sounding.
is the image tight or diffused.
ETC.

This amp DOES have a general sound relative to others. What's your take on it's character?
rower30 OP
211 posts
 
I want to base my decison to listen to this amp, and make the drive, based on THIS amp's reputation, and not lineage or hearsay. My freind says to stay away from McIntosh. Is this a Harley Davidson, as he says, made to a distinct "style" or a modern Buell style piece?

I'm probably stuck bringing my KISMETS with, and getting a general impression on an A/B on what ever speakers they might have. I know, not the best way to do it, but it can get general sonic characteristics in play. More bass, less bass, brighter...things like that. Then, drag one home if it seems promising.
rower30 OP
211 posts
 
...How is the SA-103 short lived...

Easy, have you tried to TOUCH one? Heat is the nemesis of longevity, regardless of how good it sounds prior to wear. Heat is heat. The top and bottom of the unit get very, very, warm too. It isn't isolated to the hat sinks.

As far as the MV452 goes, speakers have two insidious behavior issues that amps do not like.
- Thermal compression caused by the voice coil heating. This changes the speaker impedance with respect to current.
- Impedance and phase fluctuation with respect to frequency.

Both issues happen simultaneously in a speaker under power, which is NEVER a set impedance. The Autoformer set-up isolates the amp from this bad stuff, but at a price compared to direct-coupled amplifiers. The frequency response of the amplifier will vary more depending on how well the three (2,4 or 8 ohm) binder posts match the speaker impedance. Bass and Treble will change some and never be exactly right looking into the speaker. The speaker won't allow it. You can get close, but never as exact as a direct-coupled amplifier.
rower30 OP
211 posts
 
Oh yes the amps sound different. I was lead to believe that the pre-amp, "is the heart of your system". Shoot, that went out the window this week listening to amps. There was every bit as big a difference between amps as pre-amps. An amp is not a "fine tuning" thing.

I ended up liking a SimAudio MOON Evolution amplifier. Never even considered it! Now I'll drag MY pre-amp (PASS LABS XP-10) and ODYSSEY KISMET MONO amps to the store and Ato B with at least "some" home grown reference. THEN, I'll see what amp to drag home from that episode. At least I have the MOON 860A as my current "beat this" benchmark. I may find that the KISMETS are better than expected too. Not a bad outcome, as I'll just drag THEM home.
rower30 OP
211 posts
 
The KISMETS are crystal clear when auditioned against big name amps like the MOON W-8 and Boulder 1060. Where they fall short, as you might expect, is in dynamic compression at louder volumes. The soundstage gets smaller, and instrumental precision gets less separated, hurting purity of placement of each sound at higher volumes.

175 watt / lower voltage rails can only get you so much headroom. But keep it near realistic and they are really open and sweet sounding. I have no complaints about these KISMET amps. Highly recommended for smaller amps.

So, for a small amps, these are nice sounding. The C4's just pull too much from them too often. You just got to know that you can't run with the big dogs with small amps! That isn't the amps fault.
rower30 OP
211 posts
 
Power use is a concern when on 24/7, definitely.

Right now, I really like the MOON W-8 amplifier which I would buy used as better-off users move up to the new 870A model. This amps is very detailed without being harsh. It also has an expansive image left to right. And, it idles at 55 watts. Yes, it is still expensive (to me) but is an audibly better sounding amp than my KISMETS (at three times the price).

My KISMETS have worked perfectly for over a year of daily use. DEAD quiet and good sounding. They use the BLACK boards and are the ultimate KISMET edition amps. No, they aren't designed to be the be all to end all amps. They are as solidly built as about anything in their price range and better than most. Hi-end amps SHOULD sound better!

Heat, if it gets near the caps, will definitely hurt their life. There is just no way around that. Better stuff still last longer, true.
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