Is Louder always Better?


i'm inclined to say yes.

first, context: you are not generating impedance mismatches when A/Bing gear, you have amps w/ more than enough power for your speakers / room (ie no clipping) and you haven't disconnected your tweeters (ala monster subs in cars) or sitting horribly off-axis.

the thing about home audio (digital particularly) is that as external noise is reduced, you are left w/ a purer signal--simple S/N ratio folks. generally, live instruments don't hurt your ears, but when a home rig does, i'd contend that its the noise riding on the signal, as its mostly concentrated on the upper mids thru treble, and this is where fatigue is generated (again, monster sub in car example for bass as non-fatiguing). the external & objectionable noise found in this frequency range determines final listening SPLs (the listener naturally arrives at a volume setting where the artifact noise doesn't cause overt fatigue). as noise is reduced, the final SPL level can be increased while generating no incremental listening fatigue.

but, at all volumes, it also implies greater microdetail & clarity (again higher S/N ratio), while also being more enjoyable---i consider those findings as evidence that 'louder is better' is a fine litmus test. if you make changes that result in your listening louder without your ears immediately objecting, you are highly likely listening to an improvement in home playback (given original context).

what is this getting at? external noise (aka Distortion) not only obscures micro-detail in the upper mids & treble, but it also causes listening fatigue and ultimately limits the volume you can listen comfortably at (ergo the thread title). i've found that external noise removal is a function of 3 efforts, all of which are equally important:
1) power conditioning
2) vibrations
3) room acoustics

(one visionary poster referred to them as the holy trinity of audio, i agree).

i figure i've put 10% of my audio budget into these 3, and it ultimately is the difference between a decent but disappointing rig, and a very satisfying one.

YMMV, but probably won't.
128x128rhyno

Showing 3 responses by almarg

Lots of good comments above. As Bombaywalla and Larryi alluded to, I think the OP is conflating noise, and the ratio of signal-to-noise, with distortion in its various forms. Noise and distortion are very different things, having different causes and different effects.

As I see it distortion, which can exist in many forms, is what will typically cause listener fatigue, and also often result in the listener preferring to listen at a less than realistic volume and/or at a lower volume than he or she may otherwise prefer. And as Bombaywalla indicated, and assuming good source material, speakers and system components are likely to be the main contributors to distortion.

That is all consistent with comments Ralph/Atmasphere has made many times, to the effect that certain higher order odd harmonic distortion components are used by our hearing mechanisms as loudness cues, and minimizing or eliminating those distortion components is essential to the system being able to replicate, or at least approximate, the sense of "ease" which characterizes the dynamic peaks of unamplified music heard live.

Noise and the ratio of signal to noise, on the other hand, which I certainly agree can be helped in many cases by power conditioning, and in some cases also by vibration control, but which can also often be limited by the intrinsic performance of the electronics, involve low level effects that can adversely affect resolution, inner detail, ambience, micro-dynamics, and other such things. But I would not expect noise, or its relation to signal level (i.e., S/N ratio), to have much if any effect on the maximum volume that may be preferred.

Regarding the comments by Charles and Larryi about listening at relatively low volumes, I certainly agree that the ability of a system to perform well at those levels is a desirable attribute. But given the premise that we want our systems to reproduce well recorded music as realistically as possible, my feeling is that that cannot be accomplished without listening at a volume level approximating, or at least approaching, the volume level at which a particular piece of music would typically be heard when performed live. One reason for that being the Fletcher-Munson Effect. The tonal balance of our hearing mechanisms is different at different volume levels.

Most of my listening is to classical music, and IME the dynamic peaks of most live classical music, when listened to from a decent seat in a good hall, are LOUD. Not only in the case of orchestral music, but even when it comes to small chamber ensembles, solo piano, etc. Jafant alluded to this point in his post earlier in the thread.

For that reason, while I almost always agree with just about everything Charles and Larryi have to say in these forums, with respect to this particular point, which as Larry indicated is subjective and a matter of individual preference, I see it somewhat differently.

Best regards,
-- Al
Thanks, Charles. Yes, I agree completely with your very well stated post just above.

Best regards,
-- Al
Hi Larry,

I certainly agree with your point with respect to the majority of classical recordings. However, as you no doubt realize there are nevertheless many classical recordings, especially on smaller labels that prioritize sonic quality and know how to achieve it, which are produced with minimal or even no dynamic compression. Despite the fact that, as you indicated, such recordings will be unlistenable in a car or other noisy environment.

For example, the following statement appears on many of the Telarc LPs of the 1980's:
As with all Telarc recordings, once an appropriate microphone placement and recording level have been established, no further adjustments are made during the course of the session. This leaves the responsibility for dynamics and balance in the hands of the conductor and the musicians. During the recording of the digital masters and subsequent transfer to disc, the audio chain was entirely transformerless. Nor was the signal passed through any processing devices (i.e., compressors, limiters, equalizers, etc.) at any step during production.
Also, out of curiosity I once looked at the waveforms of the CD version of the Sheffield Lab recording of Prokofiev's "Romeo and Juliet," conducted by Erich Leinsdorf, using an audio editing program I have on my computer. I found that the difference in volume between the loudest and the softest notes was an amazing 55 db. And sure enough, when I play that CD, or its original direct-to-disc LP release which I also have (which has considerably better sonics, btw, as might be expected), peaks reach about 105 db at my listening position, while soft notes reach down into the 50's.

To put that 55 db figure in perspective, btw, I'll add that it means that about 316,000 times as much power is required to reproduce the loudest notes on that recording than is required to reproduce the softest notes. And I have many other recordings in my collection which I feel certain approach that figure. The Telarc recording of Stravinsky's "Firebird Suite," conducted by Robert Shaw, being one of many examples I could cite.

One of the priorities I've had as my system has evolved is to be able to play such recordings (I have many of them) with no sense of strain. As you indicated, though, priorities will differ among different individuals, as will the kinds of recordings they listen to.

Best regards,
-- Al