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is it possible to make digital audio sound like vintage vinyl

sam here with another question. is it possible to make digital audio sound like vintage vinyl ? i realize i'm gonna get ripped a new a-hole however this is not a joke question. honest answers please i can take the heat

as crazy as it sounds it seams perfectly logical to me. now here is what i did using my 2013 dell pc windows 7 32bit.

using foobar 2000 with the convolver dsp filter i made an impulse file consisting of a 1 second wave file extracted at 32 / 88 

from the intro to pink floyds us and them on 1st press vintage vinyl u.k harvest label. just the surface noise before the music 

starts and applied the impulse file to a digital album to see if the digital album now sounds like vintage vinyl.here's the results

not sure if i made the digital audio sound worse or really what i achieved ? feedback will help me decide if i should

abandoned this pipe dream and move on. source is digital download flac 16/44 same source for both before/after samples.

audio sample 1: http://pc.cd/GB3

audio sample 2 (impulse applied) http://pc.cd/7eA

audio sample 3: http://pc.cd/7DP7

audio sample 4 (impulse applied) http://pc.cd/bw2

audio sample 5: http://pc.cd/3etrtalK

audio sample 6 (impulse applied) http://pc.cd/lTf7
guitarsam

Showing 8 responses by cleeds

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cleeds
5,642 posts
 
mikelavigne
it all depends on your reference for how vintage vinyl should sound.
Quite so!
if you actually have a high level vinyl playback system and actual vintage vinyl to directly compare it to......then hell no! you are not going to make digital completely sound like that
You’d be surprised! I can make hi-res digital copies of an LP - played back using a very "high level vinyl playback system" - that are indistinguishable from the original. No special skills are required.

I know that can be a disturbing thought; it was a discovery I found difficult to accept. But it’s true. Feel free to try it for yourself.
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cleeds
5,642 posts
 
stevejewels
Is it possible to make a digital file sound like an analog LP? Indistinguishably? No
It’s not only possible, it’s not even that difficult to do.
When you digitize a file you select some of the information to keep and some to discard.
No, you don’t. The s/n, FR, and resolution of a hi-res digital file far exceeds that which can be pressed to LP. No information is "discarded."
If there was a perfect way to do it why are there so many DACs and methods?
It’s probably not possible to make the copy "perfect." But it is possible to make it indistinguishable from the LP.

As I already mentioned, it pains me to admit this. I’m an analog guy from way back when and remain one still.
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cleeds
5,642 posts
 
heaudio123
Digitize a turntable with a good A/D and play it back with a good DAC. Will you be able to tell the difference?
That’s a $1 million question.

My vinylphile friends don’t like it when I say this but: It is possible to make a digital copy of an LP that is indistinguishable from the LP itself. I have made hi-res digital files from some LP tracks and they are spooky-good.

To be clear, other than for portability or preserving the occasional ultra-rare record, I don’t think it’s really worth the trouble to digitize an LP. It’s a pretty tedious process and it’s not uncommon for even a 50-year-old LP to play back without issues, so what's the point?

I’m an analog guy, so it pains me to acknowledge this but it’s true. Whatever can be pressed onto an LP can be accurately transferred to digital.
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cleeds
5,642 posts
 
stevejewels
Simple question. What does sampling rate mean? The rate at which the original analog source is SAMPLED. The digitizing process only keep data which occurs at the sampling interval. The rest is ignored and lost.
What you state seems intuitively correct but is a common misnomer.  Only data outside of the bandwidth of the system is "ignored."
Please study up on digitizing.
If you care to follow your own advice, this video explains why you're so mistaken.
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cleeds
5,642 posts
 
millercarbon
Michael Fremer has been making digital files from records for years. Very few of us ever will hear some of the super high end cartridges he reviews. But we can hear them via digital files. He’s played them for many people at many shows for many years now and always easy to hear the differences in the cartridges.

Digital certainly is good enough to be used to compare like this. But, indistinguishable? Let’s not get carried away.
Before you become too certain, I can only suggest that you try it for yourself.

Remember, I’m an analog guy. I’ll always be an analog guy. But it isn’t that difficult to make a digital copy of an LP that is indistinguishable from the original. I understand that it pains some vinylphiles to acknowledge that truth. After all, I’m one of them!

To be clear, you’ll need hi-res digital for this to work. 16/44.1 won’t be sufficient.
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cleeds
5,642 posts
 
mikelavigne
i have over 1000 2xdsd rips of my own vinyl, none of which measure up to a direct comparison of my vinyl. and many hundreds of high rez tape transfers from the same tape as my vinyl.
i enjoy those digital transfers all the time. they can be and mostly are excellent. but when i pull out my vinyl it’s another level when compared directly ... the best of vinyl is just another thing.
I'm not familiar with your system and have no reason to doubt what you say you hear.

I'm going to ask you a question that often annoys me when it is asked by others, but I'm genuinely curious and sincere about this: Do you know what quality of LP playback renders a digital copy audibly inferior? In your opinion, where would digital have to improve to overcome that limitation?

I usually ignore questions like that and wouldn't blame you if you do, too.
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cleeds
5,642 posts
 
mikelavigne
... what i find is unless i can get someone into my room and we can listen together it becomes such a circular discussion ...
I understand completely and it's why I hesitated to ask my followup questions. Kudos for you for responding.

... having a top level vinyl reference is not trivial ...

Absolutely agree.
... digital is fully satisfying to me as it is ...
 Absolutely agree even though, as I've said, I'm an analog guy.
it’s only when someone drags this old idea out that we then do this familiar dance again. there is no commercial reason to create a new higher format ...
To be clear, I've never said that, and I know what you mean about the "dance." That's exactly what I was trying to avoid.

Also, when I said that I wasn't familiar with your system, I meant that I wasn't familiar with how it sounds.
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cleeds
5,642 posts
 
atmasphere
LPs since the 1960s have had bandwidth to 40KHz and beyond- I suspect that is one reason they are still around, as they have the widest bandwidth of any format.
Ralph, I’m really surprised to see you say that. There’s no way you can get 40 kHz from analog tape at 0 VU - that’s why FR specs for analog tape are always done well below 0 VU ... usually -10 dB for reel, iirc, and -20 dB for cassette. So if you want the best, pure-analog LP, you have to live with the limitations of tape. Hi-res digital can easily be flat out to 40 kHz and beyond.
Recent advances in pressing technology (mostly at QRP) have allowed the pressings to be considerably lower noise, rivaling Redbook. Most of the surface noise of an LP is produced during pressing; almost none from mastering.
You’ll get no argument from me there. As I’ve said, I’m an analog guy. Typically, I prefer LP to digital.

I think it’s important to keep perspective, and to claim that the resolution or performance limits of LP exceed that of the best digital just isn’t supported by the numbers. On the other hand, many of the potential technical advantages offered by digital far exceed that required by the music. For example, the LP has restricted dynamic range compared to digital, but that’s of no consequence with most recordings. And it’s the same with channel separation and with w&f ...



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