is getting a tube pre a valid option with ss amp?

Mjcmt, perhaps the AES/Cary is less touchy than some of the tube linestages I've tried. It is all a matter of actually trying combinations; any other way is a crapshoot.

Wireless200, I am not surprised that your combination works well. There is something to be said about sticking to one brand, the designers certainly would work out the synergy, particularly with a brand like Mcintosh which puts big efforts into maintaining brand loyalty. I am a bit surprised you find the gear better with classical than with rock; I usually find that if something sounds good with classical it is also terrific with rock, but, the reverse is not always true.

I am a bit leery about any theoretical attempts to "compensate" for certain qualities or tendencies by finding another component with supposedly opposite qualities. This hardly ever works out as hoped, and for the most part results are unpredictable.

In particular, I have found the behavior of systems with tube linestage/preamps and solid state amps unpredictable and most often unsatisfying. Of course certain specific combinations in certain specific systems will work, but, again, only trial and error will tell (a friend makes such switches all the time for fun, but he has well over a dozen amps and almost as many preamps and a half dozen speaker systems). It is a tempting combination if someone "needs" the power that is most easily obtained from solid state but hopes for "tube magic."

I bet everyone has a little bit different ideas about tube magic, but Mechans description of holographic imaging and tonal beauty and lack of "chiseling" comes close. I would add that this "magic" also involves notes seeming to bloom naturally into space, without an artificial "edge" and for the entire space to be filled with ambient "hall" sounds. To me, that is only really achieved in full measure going all tube, and even then, you get so much more going triode (vs. pentode), and single-ended (provided you have suitable speakers).

I have gotten much better, and more predictable results results with a solid state preamp into tube amps than the reverse. I own, though I no longer use, a Placette Active linestage and a Levinson No. 32 preamp. Both work very well with ANY amp I've tried them with. But, my current tube front end -- Emotive Audio Epifania and Viva Fono, work much better.

There are some operational issues with using a tube linestage and solid state amp if you plan on leaving the amp on all the time (solid state gear takes MUCH longer to fully warm up, so it is often left on all the time). Some tube gear will emit loud noise on turn on, and perhaps, on turn off. This noise may come through even when there is a mute button. That means one cannot turn off the tube linestage without first turning off the amp if one wants to avoid this noise.

I should say that I don't dislike solid state amps; some manage to tame the "chiseling," though often by sounding a touch dull and lifeless when it comes to small dynamic changes. If you have a pair of speakers and a setup that truly NEEDS power (most people overestimate their needs here), it may be the only practical way to go. If that is the case, I would look first to a solid state linestage before trying to find a tube unit.

Eweedhome,

I too am generally not enamored with the 6H30 for the same reasons. This again illustrates a problem with generalizing about the sound of tubes. There are quite a lot of high-powered amps running 6550 pentodes which use a lot of negative feedback that I find far more brittle sounding than most solid state gear.

Hi Mjcmt,

I don't know if one can reasonably generalize about even a personal preference on type of tube based on a single comparison. First, type of tube chosen would depend not only on the designer's preference for the sound, but also circuit requirements, amount of gain needed, etc. The best tube is one that best fits the requirement of the component. Also, 6SN7s, like all tube types, have quite different sounds, depending on the specific tube chosen.

I have some familiarity with Cary triode amps (not the pentode EL34). They can sound dramatically different, depending on the 6SN7s used in the amp. Quite often, the 6SN7 chosen by the manufacturer is picked with cost and availability as primary concerns, not necessarily "sound" first (this makes sense because the amp has to be reasonably serviceable, and because "sound" is a personal thing, why put a lot of money into an alternative that may or may not be considered better by the buyer?). I've heard great improvement with alternative NOS 6SN7s used in their amps. Have you tried alternatives?

Realistically, one does have to audition stuff, with what comes from the manufacturer for the first "knock out" round of auditions. Unfortunately, that may mean eliminating a particular piece even though a better choice of tubes might have made it a contender.

If I were at a dealership that offered a preamp that uses something other than 6SN7s, I would still at least give it a shot, because, when properly used, the results can be terrific too. My phono stage, which I think is killer good, uses 12AX7s, but, I had to try quite a few different types to get to the ones that work the best, and sonic differences between types were substantial.

I can understand the Less-is-more approach, but, that could mean trying to do more with less options and leeway. One tube would mean less gain (generally not a problem), but it would also mean very high output impedance (no cathode follower). Also, simplicity could limit the choice of tube; for example, one may have to use the 6h30 because of its high transconductance and low output impedance for such a "simple" circuit. Some people like the sound of this tube, others, as noted above, don't.

Every design choice means some kind of tradeoff. Conrad Johnson, avoids a cathode follower by having many tubes in parallel. It is still a simple circuit, but, it does mean many tubes.

I have a linestage (Emotive Audio Epifania), whose topology I have no understanding, which uses one tube (twin section tube) per channel, supposedly with no cathode follower needed to lower impedance. I suppose this qualifies as few tubes "in the signal path," but it has a LOT of tubes in the power supply. It uses tube rectification and six gas regulator tubes. The designer himself thinks that the power supply is "in the signal path," hence the great care in getting good power.

Mjcmt, if you like the tubes you have, then, just sit back and enjoy the sound. But, if you would like to chase something else, you do have the opportunity to radically change the sound of those amps just by changing tubes. To some, that is part of the fun, to others, that is what is frustrating (some people may like the sound they are getting but hate the idea that "better" may be lurking out there somewhere). If you want to look at alternatives, just be aware that, particularly with 6SN7s, results are NOT necessarily related to price or reputation; it depends on your taste, system and synergy with your other equipment. This can get very expensive and the results can be erratic. In my system, very expensive Tungsol roundplates are the best, but, very expensive metal-based GE's were very lean and unpleasant.