Interconnect Directionality

Haha, bring on reality!

From nonoise’s post:

”We underwent a testing program. We wanted to listen to every type of different connector we were going to use, every cable we were going to use and also pay attention to the physical aspects of the support of the all the equipment. All this stuff we had learned had basically come from the high-end hi-fi field, which we’d been trying out over the years and discovered a lot of that stuff made a difference. Some of it was just different; some of it was detrimental but some of it was an improvement. So we went though and we listened to a whole bunch of XLR connectors, we listened to 20 different audio cables, because I needed 23 kilometers of cable to make our own patch bay and rewire everything in the studio... all the outboard gear and the machinery. We listened to 20 different cables. We directionalized them all first, of course. Every cable sounds different in a different direction. It’s small, but it sounds different. And actually, the most amazing thing we discovered was when we listened to our technical earth cables, which we have going into copper rods in the riverbank. Our technical earth cables are just a heavy duty, high quality, regular, copper thick-sheathed cable. We’d been recommended to try this multi strand thinner cable, which had been woven like some of our audio cables.

These are cables for electric?

For earthing, woven to cross individual strands at 90 degrees to each other as much as possible to help eliminate RF etc. We listened to this, and we ran it straight out the door of the boat, over the bridge to the copper rods and we did an A-B and listened. Even the technical earth cable, you could clearly hear the difference from the original earth cable we were using. But even more surprisingly, we said for a laugh, let’s just turn the cable around the other way and see if we can hear any directional difference on the technical earth cable. And we couldn’t believe it, but we could.”

Assuming cables do have a direction to them, it makes sense that I observed a slight difference in phase or some type of imbalance when hooked up right: forward and left: backward. Assuming you’ve identified the cable directions, is there any difference between forward and backward if both channels are one or the other? Was my observation of the soundstage moving closer or further away based in reality or was it a hallucination?

@jea48 You can’t tell me these things. Now I’m going to have to spend a weekend making sure all my speaker cables are oriented properly so the damn piano stays put. 😀

What is the proper orientation for hand twisted cables? Should the signal and return run in the same direction or opposite each other? Please tell me someone has an easy way to test it. Perhaps by looking at the end of the copper where the cut was made?

You guys are fun. Electrons and photons are what make the audio circuit go ‘round. Geoff is just being more technical. Electrons don’t bump into each other like billard balls. They are surrounded by self-generated electric fields (and magnetic fields when accelerating) which push on the electric (and magnetic) fields of other electrons. Photons are the charge carrier of the electric and magnetic fields. So it’s photons pushing on photons whose mere existence is dependent on the existence of the electrons and their associated electric (and magnetic) fields. The question is why the “path” set up by the electrons could possibly have a directionality to it.

Photons have zero mass although they carry momentum. Or I should say they can transfer momentum. 

I experimented with a pair of interconnects in a different location in my audio chain and again it seems like interconnect cables have directionality to them. When they are going “the right away,” there is what I will call a “phase issue” that goes away. What I’m not sure on yet is whether or not there is a forwards and backwards or if all that matters is if both cables are going forwards OR backwards together. I’m leaning towards “yes” but the difference is more subtle compared to when one cable is forwards and one backwards. 

By listening, what I can hear is that when one is “backwards” and the other “forwards”, there seems to be a phase issue where the imaging is less precise. If both are backwards OR both are forwards, the phase issue goes away. I cannot easily distinguish between forwards and backwards for the pair, just that I can figure out how to get the cables in unison if that makes sense. If I hear the phase issue and I swap the direction on one cable it goes away. After that is solved, I can reverse both cables simulataneously so they stay in unison but I have difficulty determining the best direction. I think I have a preference but it’s subtle enough that I can’t be sure I’m not fooling myself. Perhaps more listening will allow me to figure it out. Any suggestions?

Or perhaps it doesn’t matter, just get the signal wires in the right direction?

Fascinating. I believe I found the Audio Bacon review:

https://audiobacon.net/2019/05/27/iconoclast-cables-same-measurements-different-sound/?amp=1

The more I learn about this hobby, the more mysterious it becomes. Where does it end?

That sounds like a winning plan. Is there a way to tell the direction of a wire without listening to it? E.g. can you identify the direction of the copper grains? The reason I ask is because it would be nice to know whether or not the signal and return wires are in unison or opposite without taking the wires apart and retwisting. 

I believe this is the PS Audio post you mention:

https://forum.psaudio.com/t/belden-iconoclast-interconnects-and-speaker-cabling/2038

You weren’t kidding. It’s over 2,000 comments. 

Trick question: Audio frequencies are present in speaker cables and interconnect cables. I’ll take the clock please. 

“No audio frequencies running through cables”? What cables are you referring to?

How about the signal travels on the outside of the wire and surface impurities affect signal propagation?

To clarify, the interconnects in my example have no shield at all. Just 3 solid-core wires (1 signal and 2 for return) with cotton insulation on each wire hand twisted together.  Connectors are eichmann bullets.

Last night I swapped the direction of my digital coax cable between the CD transport and DAC. It sounds like I’m hearing more detail, even though the cable is now going “against” the direction of the arrow printed on it. 

I wonder if Ohno continuous cast (OCC) wires are direction to the same degree as drawn copper. If it has to do with the copper grains, perhaps grain-free OCC wires have no direction to them. Food for thought.