helomach. Thanks.
I've read a number of reviews where people claim the newer Yamaha amp's sound bright. What is your opinion of this?
Mesch mentioned Cambridge Audio but upon review and reflection from a previous Cambridge amp I owned, it was too clinical for my taste. A bad matchup with the Mirage speakers. The sound was not really neutral and grated on my ears every bit as bad as the Yamaha A500 and Klipsch Heresy combination I had in the 1980's.
I would prefer to find a neutral or slightly warm amp vs. one that is either bright or clinical sounding. A wee bit bright probably would not present an issue but one that is heavy on the bright sound won't work. |
Hopefully the amps and receivers are better quality than the CD players. I had a NAD CD player a number of years ago that croaked right after the warranty expired.
Will at least take a look at them. Not going the used route again at this time. Have had a used Yamaha Receiver that I bought last year suddenly develop problems too though at least that still works well enough to use. Have lost an Input channel on it. |
yogiboy. Thanks. That may work. I was reading about the SR20 just a few minutes ago but this one appears to have what I need including the phono stage. Plan to have a turntable again. Will consider this but will have to do more research first. |
reubent. Have a Tuner, CD Player, Cassette player. That Nuforce won't work for my needs. Thanks for the suggestion. |
Thanks for the additional suggestions. When I have time this week I will look into them.
1graber2. The NAD CD player that I had died after a year and a week. Warranty was for one year and right as it expired, it promptly bit the dust. Bought a Cambridge Audio after that and it lasted a few years. |
Yes, I am looking at the new Yamaha stuff now.
One problem I am running into is trying to find a amp or receiver that will allow me to Biwire my 6 ohm Mirage OM 10's. Every amp or receiver I've looked at can't handle the lower impedance except when the OM 10's are not Biwired. My Castle's are 8 ohm and don't present that problem. |
I like Yamaha. Have a 35 year old A 500 right now but given the age I think it is wise to get something new just in case that decides to bite the dust like the near 30 year old Denon.
The new Yamaha or Onkyo may match up well with the Mirage speakers since I've read the newer amps are a bit on the bright side vs. the neutral sounding or flat A500. The Mirage speakers are quite flat and would reduce the bright sound of the amp or receiver. |
According to the manufacturers, I am reading on the back of amps or receivers that you can't run 6 ohm in biwire mode (morphs into 3 ohm) because it will overload the amp. Do a close up of the back side of some amps and receivers from Yamaha, Onkyo, Cambridge Audio etc. and look at the speaker connectors. You will see notes concerning the load that the amp or receiver can handle when using single pairs or biwired. |
Well, that is interesting. I guess I should just use a single pair of speakers per amp then. I was thinking of two pairs of speakers running simultaneously on the same amp. Did it with a little Dayton 120 amp for while and it sounded great. But only one input and not really being able to properly biwire and only having one set of speaker connectors on back makes it a less than ideal amp.
Sounds like Bi wiring is not the formal definition of using two pairs of speakers at the same time with one amp then. Thanks for the input. |
Thanks for the added info on the subject of running four speakers. Got away with it on the Dayton amp but won't even think of trying it now with the real amps.
Oddly enough, I just got home from work and plugged in my headphones into the Denon PMA520 and started to play a cassette tape. Suddenly it is functioning perfectly again. Last night and yesterday afternoon I lost one channel but the other worked and then later in the evening I lost both channels. No audio at all. But now this evening it is working perfectly.
Weird. Will still shop for a new integrated or receiver but will hope in the meantime this Denon will last at least a few months. It would allow me to save more money and budget more for a better amp. |
Just checked the manuals of a couple of Integrated's. Looks like Onkyo amps need at least an 8 ohm speaker for bi wiring. But Marantz says a 4 ohm or higher will work. Same with Yamaha. That is good news.
Will hope the Denon can last a few months until I can come up with enough money to get a pretty good integrated. Should be able to spend over $400 if I don't have go and get one in the next month. |
To the other people that responded in regards to buying used.
I would prefer to buy new at this point. Buying used at this point in time seems foolish. While I can get something pretty good for a good price, if I have to start shelling out money for repairs, it quickly becomes a money pit and not worth the initial cost and the repair costs could exceed the cost to buy a brand new unit that is good.
I already have spent $150 to repair the Denon and $100 to buy it. That was the original cost of the unit right there. The same thing could happen when I buy another used unit. |
donvito. All I am going by is what I read on the Onkyo website manuals. I don't have enough of a technical background of the circuits and design of the units to comment. I have friends that are Broadcast Engineers and others that have a background in the technical side of electronics, and I bet if they saw the schematic of the units they could explain why. |
2psyop. Yeah, I just read a great review of the Outlaw in Stereophile. That will handle four speakers or bi wiring. Would have to check with the company to be sure that my 6 ohm Mirage could be bi wired with it.
May be the best way to go. Save the money and when I can buy it, get it. Looks like a great receiver and apparently the best thing out there at that price point and under it. |
mesch. Thanks for the added info. I don't necessarily have to run two pairs of speakers simultaneously. I just tried it for a lark with the Dayton amp and it sounded great. Using the Omnipolar OM 10's with the more detailed sounds of the Conway 3's provided a great soundstage with lots of detailed music. But I've found that Bi Wiring is every bit as good and has greatly improve the audio quality of my equipment.
I was thinking of buying a cheaper new unit for short term simply because the odds that it would fail would be lower than something comparable that is decades old. A new $250 Yamaha for example is likely to last a lot longer than one of the older units I've bought. Would buy me the time to get the money I need for something like the Outlaw.
I suspect the Yamaha A 500 will be a longer lived amp than the Denon PMA520. Yamaha has always treated me well and I've never had a bad piece of equipment from them.
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jag. Only one thing worries me about the new Yamaha amps and receivers. I've read a large number of reviews from people that claim the they sound too bright. Not just a couple but a lot. I can't listen to bright speakers or amps for any length of time without listener fatigue.
Older Yamaha amps usually were neutral and not bright. My 35 year old Yamaha A 500 is just that. Still sounds great. I've read the AX596 from a few years ago is also not bright. Somehow with the last series or two of amps, Yamaha has changed the sound.
I was just reading a few reviews on the new Onkyo A 9150 and that might be a better choice than any new Yamaha amp. Not bright at all. Will read more about Marantz to see if that might work too. |
dynaquest4. I still listen to the radio but mostly for news, sports and talk. But will still listen to music if I find a station that plays Classical which I have a limited collection of CD;s and albums. Sometimes will listen to Jazz on the radio too though I have a pretty good collection of it.
I don't have the money to with separates really unless I want to neglect more important things like projects that need to be done at my house, replacing other electronics that have crapped out recently and seems to be an ongoing problem (TV, Wet and Dry Vac, Printer etc.) and paying off some debt.
I am quite satisfied with using a Integrated amp and will likely continue to do so. There are very good Receivers out there as well like the Outlaw and that may be a worthy replacement to a integrated amp. Still have plenty of research and reading ahead.
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rterlisner. I owned a Cambridge around 15 years ago. Stopped using it in 2010. Too bright and brittle sounding with my Mirage OM 10 speakers. Also, I don't believe that amp can be bi wired and that is a must for me.
I already have a couple of good tuners. Carver TX11a and a Onkyo T-4310r. Onkyo has better sound and a bit better selectivity while the Carver is better with really weak stations.
Will add a turntable in the future. |
I will follow through on researching some of the other suggestions later this week when I have a little spare time. Busy with work right now. Don't have a day off again until a week from Sunday.
I just did a little test and found that bi wiring is clearly better than a single pair of speaker cables. I can hear instruments in more precise locations and notes that previously were either difficult to hear or not heard at all. I will only buy a integrated amp that can be bi wired at this point. |
