At CES a few years ago, I heard Triangle speakers matched with Unison Research Unico hybrid integrated in two rooms. The sound was lively yet smooth, if not a little on the lean side. I think the Krell would bring out any brightness the Triangles might have. Have you considered the Primaluna Prologue integrateds or the Portal Panache?
I'm a new guy in this area.
I have never heard of those amps and I have never thought of buying tubes because it looks so fragile and hard to maintain. However, If you can convince me that tubes sound much better than Solid state, I wouldn't mind buying tubes.
I did some research on the amps you mentioned and I see a lot of compliments on Unison Research and Primaluna Prologue. Only difference between two is the price. Primaluna Prologue is more affordable. Can you specifically recommend me the models?
You may try the Pathos Classic One. The reviewers and everyone I have talked to that has one, go crazy over it. They shows up on AudioGon at a very good price regularly. I have a Music Fidelity Trivista 300(I know thats more than you probably want or need) and I can tell you the hybrid integrated is the way to go. I've owned Tandberg, Jeff Rowland and Sim Audio Moon integrateds, and the hybrid eats them all for lunch . My 2 cents.
I have owned a pair of triangle celius for almost 2 years.
First I used a Plinius 8100 integrated solid state to drive the celius, the sound was very clean, good soundstage,very dynamic, but a little bright and without body, the sound was thin.
Then I moved to the Conrad Johnson MV50(tubes), and that was a perfect match, airy sound, not anymore bright, very good high extension, full body.
Triangle speakers sound very well with tube amps, because of their different sound signatures. Triangle have a little bright and thin sound , some tube amps have a warm sound.But all depends on what kind of music do you listen to?
Another thing to consider is the sensibility of the celius, is a very efficient speaker. So, a 50, 40 watt amp will be ok. I saw that Gunbei pointed you to Primaluna prologue and Unicon. Those are in the $1200 used.
Also you can check
Tube Audio Design TAD-60, you can use as an integrated first and then as a power amp. You can read some reviews here, there is a link to audiogon review
Hope it helps
It sells new for 1299 factory direct and used for 800.
If your budget is less than $1000.
I would say Audiolab 8000s(solid state) now there is one used $500 or the Classe(solid state) CAP-80 black $800. I think both are neutral, so wont make it brighter and will provide more body to the music. Last you can buy some power tube amp for $700(used) and a solid state pre for $600(used) and make a good combo. Also you will need some good Interconnect, entry level used $200. Tell us more about your music preferences and maybe we can help you better.
I have had the Unico running my Triangle Antals for 3 months now, and no itch to upgrade yet... I really like this combination, the best sound I have ever had.
The Creek may also be a good match, but a lot depends on the quality of your source. Just remember to give the Celius some time, Triangles are infamous for a long break-in time.
I have been using a pair of Celius 202 floor standing speakers for just under a year now.
In the past, I used a solid state Krell KAV-300i integrated amplifier with the above speakers and most recently upgraded to two hybrid Pathos Classic One Mk II units set as monobloc units, running in bridged mode.
The improvements in sound with the two Classic One Mk II's set to bridged mode over the KAV-300i are simply extraordinary and very hard to describe in words.
The tubed based pre-amplifier section of the Classic One Mk II makes all the difference.
The Classic One Mk II seems to produce a better musical representation with cleaner extended highs and lows compared to the full solid state Krell KAV-300i sound.
You can hear layers and actual ridges of music with far better definition and separation present.
What the KAV-300i lacks poorly in midrange is far more existent with the Classic One Mk II, exhibiting both additional texture and detail.
I would go as far as saying the Classic One Mk II has even far more realistic deeper bass notes than the renowned KAV-300i famous reviewed bass type sound.
With two Mk II units set to bridged mode, the resulting soundstage present exhibits a five fold increase in terms of magnitude over the single unit conventional stereo mode and is very wide in the portrayed spread, with excellent imaging.
You notice there is far more happening musically in between the depth and forward areas, resulting in a big boost of body presence and energy.
The bridged mode is practically pleading with you to turn the volume levels up even further.
A huge airy atmosphere is more present around every single instrument and vocal note, making you pin-point exactly the position of where everything is coming from in front, behind, up, down and to the sides.
Also, there is far better drive and refined accurate texture detail present in all regions, due to the increased power and current drive.
The music just happens in continual bursts of excitement, sending a tingling sensation down your spine.
The Celius speakers thrive on high current solid-state power amplification between 150 watts to 200 watts RMS per channel at 8 ohms impedance.
They seem to favour the most current in the frequency range between 200 Hz to 1000 Hz, as the impedance can drop down in range from 4 ohms to 2 ohms, at high volumes.
The high brightness you are describing with the Celius speakers, is due to the fact they have not been properly broken-in as of yet, as they generally need a few hundred hours on them to really sound sweet.
You will notice that after burn-in they will sound entirely different, with massive bass extension and a very rich midrange open up, whilst the harsh brightness will completely disappear.
I hope the above information helps.
Oh my so many~
Thank you for your kind feedbacks even I'm getting more confused about what to choose.
Here's my some preferences that might help narrow it down.
I want the sound to be warm but very detailed.
I love orchestral music, especially violine and piano concertoes, and also sometimes listen to opera arias and jazz. Like I mentioned before, My budget doesn't allow more than $2,000 for amp and CD player. I wouldn't mind buying used ones.
Thank you again,
Audio decisions are always this tough. But that's what makes it so fun!
I'd definitely buy both your CD player and integrated used on Audiogon. Run searches on the components you're considering and you'll get a better idea of how they might sound with your equipment and if you'd like them or not. The neat thing about turning up threads relevant to your topic is that the discussions always point you towards something that you never thought of before.
As Xlr8or says Celius break in takes time and they are better with tubes on the way. Sure they will sound less hash and bright after they break in, but if not pared correctly they will retain something of their brightness.
So, lets see, If I would spend $2000, on cd, amp section(amp and pre or integrated) and Interconnect,. I would buy used equipment here on Audiogon.
You said you listen mostly to jazz, classical and you love warm sound.
I think for the cd player you can try a
Jolida JD 100a tube output cd player(around $500 used on Agon) or a Rotel 991(this was top of the line 4 years ago, also around $500) or a Classe CDP .5 cd player/transport around $700. This 3 will be a good source for the music. I would go for the jolida, or the rotel 991(I own one and it is a very good cd player, then you can use it as a transport). Then for the amp and thinking on your musical taste I will try to go for tube all way. Conrad Jonhson would be good to the warm sound you look for. Check the MV50, the MV52 and the MV55(they will be great for violins and cellos), all are around $700 used here on Agon. For the preamplifier I will go with an hybrid, check the Sonic Frontiers SFL-1, around $600 used on Agon, or the Musical fidelity XPreV3 at $600
or the Forte F44 also around $500.
Now you have spent $1800 more or less and you have $250 aprox. to find 2 pairs of Interconnects. One for the cd-pre and the other for the pre-amp. The other way is the integrated, I think here my only advice would be the TAD-60., I already told you about it in my last post.
PD all the equipment I mentioned is now selling on Audigon so you can check it an make your decission.
Ah, XLR8OR, welcome to the insanity, I mean, Audiogon community! Looking forward to seeing pics of your system soon! :) Let's see, we haven't talked about our amps for, oh, say, ten hours now, in our nearly daily conversations over the past three weeks...
I am the only other person in the world (at least that we two know about) who's running Pathos Classic One MkII's in bridged (mono) mode.
I agree with everything he's said about them. They're wonderful.
If your budget doesn't allow for about $3k to obtain two of them, then I would begin with one, and as finances permitted, secure the second and go to bridged mode. A PHENOMENAL improvement and massive upgrade for a relative pittance.
I had no clue how huge the improvement is in power/sound with a tube hybrid integrated. And then, to go mono, OH YEAH! SUPER SWEET!! I agree that this is the sweet spot of ampification in hifi. Utterly amazing sound.
As I've said before, maybe one can bridge other brands of tube integrateds and if so, wonderful. I haven't taken the time to research it, but it may be VERY well worth your time!
I've heard of "tube tsuris" I guess that's the grief that comes from tube amps. The integrateds sure give you none of that. No heat issues, no expensive tubes, etc. I'm SO glad I went this route! I used to own PS Audio HCA-2 and a Rogue Magnum 66 tube pre. Not even close in comparison. I could not go back to it now, I'm too spoiled. In fact, I wouldn't want to go back to solid state at all. Not when there's this good of sound for such a good price in tubes.
If you want to try a hybrid integrated , there is an Audio Aero listed for $799 used . I have one and think that it is quite good . It is a less expensive voyage into this area that is quite a good representation of the field . It has only one tube in the preamp section that should last for a few thousand hours. It has bested other SS units that I have heard costing much more . Just a thought.
I'm just curious about the terms you guys are using, Bridged mode and Monobloc set. It sounds like I have to have two amps to do it. Can anyone explain me a little more with easier terms?
Yes, Chulheekim, you need two amps to run bridged/monobloc. The terms are interchangeable.
All stereo amps that can be run mono have some way to swtich them/reconfigure them to output only one channel instead of two. This necessitates having two identical amps to accomplish stereo sound.
BUT not all stereo tube integrated amps are able to be run mono. So, you would need to check that first before buying. If you do not care to ever purchase a second amp and try using them bridged/mono, then it is not necessary that the amp be able to run mono.
What we're saying is that if you are looking for a stereo tube integrated amp, check to see if it can later be switched to bridged/mono mode if you choose to add a second identical amp. If so, the two amps running mono will almost assuredly sound far better than the one stereo amp.
Using the two Classic One amps I have sound that is far better than the cost of the separate preamp/amp combinations I have tried in the past (which were about the same price together as the two Pathos amps).
Ok. Having amps running in bridged mode is way too complicate to be my first project. I'm going to try something simple but decent enough for my lovely Triangle.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Thank you all for your advice.
Running them bridged/mono over one stereo integrated adds...one piece to the system (2nd amp). Not nearly as death-defying as it sounds. In fact, bridged/mono integrateds use two less interconnects than using pre and amp. Don't let the fancy terminology fool ya. No more complicated than trying to set up separate preamp and amp. On the Classic One, all I needed do was flip one switch to make them mono. Ughhh! Tough.
Left cd out goes to left amp, to left speaker.
Right cd out goes to right amp, to right speaker.
It's THAT simple. Well, almost. ;) You just have to connect everything right on the speaker connections or you blow it all up! Lost my first house that way! ;)
And then, if you want to run a sub with it, you gotta biwire each mono amp...yeah, second thought, go get a Bose. Glad I could be of help. LOL
Go for a new CD like the Denon 3910 and a used amp like the Unico.
Rogue Integarted Cronus($1795 i think).
Iheard this combination and was very impressed how defined and muscial the sound was-very good soundstage also.