yes - tubes would be nice too. PrimaLuna ProLogue 2 or equivalent - could score for $1500 Canadian new if you are willing to take a risk on mail order from Upscale Audio. Still think you should give the Naim an Sim a shot. Staff would not be my first choice for metal with any amp... |
This is a terrific list of amps to choose from - you don't need to look any further.
I would look first at Naim Nait 5i and the Sim Moon i-1. Next I would look at the Creek Classic 5350 SE. I think the Arcam and Cambridge units in this price range are good, but the Naim and Sim are class leaders, and the Naim has a presentation that just sucks you in when paired with the Totems.
Good luck. |
I still suggest that the Naim entry level integrated is the one I would look at first - at least for solid state amp to go with the Sttaff's. The new entry level Moon is good too, perhaps more neutral but less of a toe tapper than the Naim. Tubes? Yes, but I would definitely listen first.
Some of the gear suggested by Hieule5 is going to be quite pricey - unlikely to find near the suggested budget of $1500, even used. Sim I-7? Great amp. $1500? I doubt it. |
Hieule 5,
IMHO, the NAD separates and C325/C355/C372 integrated amps are very nice, but I would not put them in the same league in terms of resolution, airiness or PRAT with the Naim, Simaudio or Creek amps mentioned above, especially to drive the Totem Staff. NAD's higher end M3 is another story - but new those are nearly twice the $1500 budget discussed here.
I have recommended the the C355/C352 and C372 models to many people on here and in "real life". The idea that you can pick up a 150 wpc integrated that has a fairly natural, neutral and smooth sound with a damping factor of >150 for under $1K new is a HiFi bargain if ever there was one.
But I like listening to the other amps better, especially the Naim Nait 5i, and I think they are worth the extra $500 if you have it in your pocket and are ready to spend it.
And as for a CD player - while the Rega Apollo is a very good player for <$1K - to go with the Staff and a Naim/Simaudio/Creek or a $1500 tube integrated, I would wait and spring for a player of equal quality - Cambridge 840C, NAD M5, Simaudio Moon CD-1, Roksan - Kandy KC-1 MKIII and Naim CD5i (a great match for, guess what? the Naim Nait 5i integrated amp). The Staffs's are great speakers, and would not be embarrassed by electronics costing twice what I have recommended here. They, and you, deserve the best you can give them... |
Hieule 5,
HA! I bet I am even cheaper than you. I have a Cambridge Azur 640C v2 that is about 2.5 years old, and it works like a champ. When Cambridge first came out with the 640C version 1, they had some problems with noisy transformers and the left channel on some units (rushed to market?). Before I had the version 2 I owned a later model 640C version 1 for a few months and had no difficulties with that either. I haven't heard much about QA/QC problems with the brand since the first batch of bad 640C units.
The 640C version 2 is noticeably more accomplished than the first version, and the 840C is significantly more polished and analog sounding than the 640C v2. |
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Dmg,
I have heard good things about the 840A v2, and my earlier comments in the thread about this amp not quite being up to the level of similarly priced Naim and Sim products was based on experience with the first version. Cambridge has been incredibly aggressive recently about rethinking and improving products, and apparently they have applied that approach to the 840A.
I am Curious what power cord are you using with this amp to achieve such positive results? |
Dmg,
Nice player. How do SACDs sound on your system?
I have some suggestions to dabble your toes in the power cord pool without shocking your wallet. I was agonizing a bit recently over the purchase of a "budget" cord for my CD player and ended up purchasing a Shunyata Diamondback at a discounted price because it would bend around the tight places in my cabinet. I was so impressed with what that did for my CD player, I made a 12 gauge wire for my integrated amp out of parts purchased from Home Depot. Without going all mushy about it, my system really sounds a lot better after adding the two wires.
In purchasing a Power Cable for the 840A, I think you should take a few things into consideration-
1. How much space do you have at the back of your system? If your amp is more than a few inches away from the wall, then you can use a stiffer cable and not have to worry about kinking it. If your amp is fairly close to the back wall or back of the cabinet, then you will need a more flexible cord, and that will limit your options.
2. How long is the run to your AC source? If you are using the stock cable, then you are probably 6ft. or less away. If you can use a shorter cord, you can save a few bucks on each foot of wire you don't buy.
3. Shielding - for an amplifier, you don't really need a shielded cable. In fact you may not want it.
Some suggestions:
Stiff wires-
Signal Cable MagicPower, $59.00 for 3ft.
http://signalcable.com/magicpower.html
VH Audio Flavor 4 Power Cable, $169.99 for 3ft.
http://www.vhaudio.com/flavor4.html
Voodoo Audio Mojo Power Cable, $175.00 for 3ft.
http://www.thecableco.com/product.php?id=6385
Not so stiff wires-
Audio Art Power Cable, $145.00 for 3ft.
http://www.audioartcable.com/Articles.asp?ID=131
JPS Labs GPA 2 Power Cable, $199.00 for 6ft.
http://www.thecableco.com/product.php?id=1136
Kimble Kable Powerkord 10, $210.00 for 4ft.
http://www.thecableco.com/product.php?id=1633
Shunyata Research Diamondback Platinum Power Cable, $250.00 for 5ft.
http://www.thecableco.com/product.php?id=6049
Many of these cables (and many, many more) are available from one vendor, the Cable Company (http://www.thecableco.com/index.php). The nice thing about them is they allow you to borrow and try cables before you buy.
All these cables are considered budget wires - if you can call a $250.00 wire "budget". For this level of product which mostly use similar grade connectors, cable gauge, conductors and geometry, any real differences are usually in the insulating material and any cryogenic treatment. Given the general similarities, I would try the Signal Cable first to see if it does anything for you. $59.00 is a nice dinner out these days - for one.
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Mxwizard,
Wow - what a great buy - much better piece than the amps you were considering when you first posted. I am sure this will be a fantastic match for the Sttaf speakers. Enjoy!
PS - now you can start looking at new sources to feed your new amp and speakers... HA! |
Dmg,
My twenty five cents.
I still think you can derive benefits from a stand alone budget power cable for your amp. If you want to and are able to spend the money on the gear your friend recommended, then that would likely provide greater benefits. More details below.
The Venom is much less accomplished than Shunyata's better cords - the Diamondback and up. I would say I noticed less than half the benefit from the Venom compared to their better cords for my budget CD player in a back to back test. Is the Venom better than your stock cable - most likely. Can you do better in a cost effective aftermarket cable for an integrated amp - most definitely - especially if you have no constraints in terms of the suppleness of the cord used.
Now to the comment: "First we need to get power to the wall. Forgoing that, I like to begin with an Audience Power Conditioner. Feeding an A Plus 4 square box. Now we can use much shorter cords, and you will find they make little difference if upstream is A Plus, to borrow the term."
I assume your friend is talking about the $495 Audience Adept Response aR1p and not the $3800 multi-plug conditioner, and that the "A Plus 4 square box" is a $350-$450 Analysis Plus Power Oval 10 with 4 Box. If that is the case - then that is about $900 worth of power conditioning and power distribution gear between your wall and your power cable to your amp, and a far cry in terms of investment from a $100 power cable.
With that said, putting these quality pieces in the front end of your power chain should have a positive overall effect on the sound of your system, and the amount of that effect will depend on how dirty your household power and the amount of junk coming back from your electronics is in the first place. For example, this set up may help protect your amp from digital grunge from your SACD player, even though the power conditioner is at the wall and not being plugged into directly.
But, I think you can't necessarily say that you will hear less of an effect from an upgraded, albeit shorter, aftermarket power cable used to connect your amp to pre-conditioned 4 box. If you are cleaning power upstream, the benefits of an aftermarket cable may actually be even greater since you are now protecting the integrity of higher quality power. Remember, the biggest impact from better power cables are 1) more efficient power delivery from larger cable gauge and better conductors, and 2) reduced EMF, EMI and RFI in the proximity of your electronics gear, speaker and IC cables due to better dielectrics, geometry and shielding (if applied) in the aftermarket cables that finally deliver the power to your source, amp, etc. I find it is all about system synergy, where appropriate improvements one place generally amplify or enhance the benefits of improvements previously made elsewhere. If the high quality cable on the 4 box stops three feet from your gear, then you are not applying the benefits described above nearest your equipment and other cables where they will do the most good.
Often, as your equipment and accessories get more sophisticated, "synergy" can become more elusive as changes in one piece may make your system sound different, but not always better. Experimentation and willingness to reject trial solutions that don't result in real improvements is key. That should not be the case here where you would be going from stock cables to power conditioner, high quality power box and better cable to your gear. I would guess in this case, the changes you would realize for an investment of about $1000 would be quite astounding - on the same order as upgrading your amp or source.
To summarize, while simply adding an inexpensive aftermarket cable to for your amp would likely provide improved sound, the set up described above could provide significant added sonic benefits to your system by delivering cleaner power to all of your gear conditioned at the wall and distributed via the 4 box. Even with the Conditioner and 4 box in the power chain, I think your amp would still benefit from an upgraded power cable, if only to provide 12 gauge or larger wire for the last little bit of supply (although other benefits related to reduced interference would also likely accrue). And while I really like Shunyata products, I would not recommend buying the Shunyata Venom power cable for your application, as I think you can get better performing (and shorter) amp cables for less money from Signal, Zebra and other Internet cable distributors.
Good luck. |
