I can sympathize with you. I use Lamm M2.1 monoblocks with my Andra II speakers, and they too get rather warm. (Not hot thankfully, but they do raise the temperature a few degrees in my non-air conditioned room. (Great in the winter, not so great in the summer!) I too have thought about buying a secondary set of amps for the summertime, but I love the sound of the Lamms so much, that I feel that anything else would just be second best.
As far as recommendations, I would recommend just getting solid state monoblock amps, and keeping the preamp. The tubed preamp should not run that hot, and it means not having to deal with restructuring your stereo system's setup, especially buying a secondary set of speaker cables and/or preamp to amp interconnects. (I assume that your speaker cables are kept short, since you run monoblocks, right? I know I do that.)
As far as a specific recommendation (for solid state monoblocks, as I recommend), I would try something like the Parasound JC-1 monoblocks. They are Powerful, and run in Class AB so they should run fairly cool. You can adjust the biasing so that they run more in Class A, which helps them sound better, but of course that will generate more heat! But it does give you some options depending on the ambient temperature).
Good Luck in your search!
the JC-1s are not all that cool even in the lower (running cooler) biasing position. I mean I definitely feel the need to turn them off completely on hot days. I would maybe try a set of the Bel Canto 1000 watt class D monoblocks. Oh and let us know how you like them too.
Well, I'll defer to Ejlif on the heat generated by the JC-1s, since I have never actually owned them. (I saw and heard them at a dealers, and they did not seem to run all that hot, (warmish yes), but then again, they were in a large air conditioned room, that probably did a better job of cooling than your typical living room would!)
My recommendation then would be to find a good pair of Class AB amps, that aren't heavily biased in Class A (as the JC-1s, or my Lamm M2.1s are). I am not a big fan of the Class D amplifiers myself, but I will admit that they do run very cool. (I heard the Nuforce ref. 9's, and they don't sound all that great, IMHO. However, perhaps the Bel Canto ones suggested by Ejlif are better.) I would definitely audition them prior to purchasing them though.
a quick note on Kurt's initial response to the thread- "...The tubed preamp should not run that hot..". I have owned the Sonic Frontiers Line 3 preamp for 5+ years, and I beg to differ on the heat output- it does put out a lot of heat.
Check out the big MF integrateds. I use a Nuvista M3 which runs quite cool, I leave it on all the time. The TriVista, 500 and 550 are even more powerful but mine is rated at 275 and actually does above 300. Because of MFs bizarre marketing strategy the amps are available at very good prices.
I had a Krell FPB600 and it was excellent with the Andra. I decided to keep only 1 amp and sold it. In hindsight it was a big mistake.
To get the best sound from the Krell, I had to leave it on 24/7 so it gets very hot just in idle. ... and yes the SF Line 3 gets very hot too with 12 tubes. I guess my problem is I don't want to sacrifice anything going to a SS integrated so maybe I should just crank up the AC in the summer :-)
My biggest concern using an integrated is the lack of current to drive the Andra so I will expand my search to SS mono amps too.
I don't like the sound of Class D amps either ... but will check out MF.
Thanks for all the imputs.
I think you are on the right track, by not going with the integrated. First off, like you said , you will lose all the magic not having at least your tube line stage in the chain. Secondly, the Andra 2's IMO like alot of power. For that reason, I know longer own them. That said, thay are a very good speaker IMO. I bet one of the Accuphase amps may sound quite good w/ them. I thought the A50V had alot of power too, and can be had for around 6K used. I did not try the A50 on the Andra's though. The Pass XA100.5 may be a great match, but expensive. You didn't mention a price range, so there are alot of options.
I wouldn't worry about power. My M3 is rated at 275. does about 325 at 8 ohms and about 850 at 2 ohms with one channel driven and it is the lowest powered of the amps I mentioned.
My budget for an integrated is ~5K and for mono SS amp is ~10K.
I read several reviews on the Bryston 28B SST and I think it might be just what I'm looking for. It doesn't required to be continuous on 24/7 and it takes ~1 hour of warm up to achieve maximum performance.
I plan to include the Parasound JC-1 mono and Pass X600.5 in my list of amps.
Sorry to be late in responding - but - I am using a Rowland Continuum 500 integrated amp on a pair of Eggleston Andra II speakers and the results are excellent. Clean, pure, good soundstaging, great depth, plenty of power (to say the least).
I am very pleased with this combination - the Andras and Rowland are in my "second system" - my main system is Avalon Eidolons with Spectral electronics - and I find nothing whatsoever to complain about with the Rowland integrated in comparison with the Spectral.
I have tried many, many integrated amps and prefer the Rowland over all. The last two I tried - Moon I-7 sounded wonderful but was a little underpowered for the Andra II speakers. The Gamut DI-150 was the most beautiful piece of stereo gear I've ever owned and sounded absolutely fantastic, but I sold it in favor of the Rowland because of its lack of a balance control. Seating in my makeshift listening room (for the second system) requires a slight shift in the left to right balance - otherwise, I would have kept the Gamut - although I am not sure it sounded any better than the Rowland.
You might consider Classe CA-M400 monoblocks. Very nice sound, lots of power (400watts@8 ohms, 800w @ 4ohms). Although they have a substantial class A bias, the are not too warm driving my power-hungry Magnepan MG-20's at substantial levels. A nice pair can be had for 6K on Audiogon. I run mine with a Herron VTSP-3 preamp, very sweet. Don't skimp on power cables.
Can you give me a brief comparison between the Rowland Continuum 500 and Gamut with the Andra IIs? I assume the Gamut probably sounds similar to your Spectral and the Rowland a bit warmer.
Possibly worth looking for a used ASR Emitter, 1 or 2, i would imagine it would fit what your after, does not sound like ss. You may not want to swap back even..
Unfortunately, I had to sell the Gamut to get the funds to purchase the Rowland - and therefore never heard a direct comparison. And, since the Andras are "warmer" than the Eidolons which are driven by my Spectral gear, I really can't paint an accurate picture of the difference there either. Perhaps I should switch the amps around in my two systems. It would be easy to put the Rowland into the Eidolon system but more difficult to put the Spectral into the Eggleston because I would have to switch interconnects and speaker cables - due to the Spectral requirement for MIT only.
Based on what I know to be true about the Rowland vs the Gamut, I would expect your assumption about the Rowland being a little warmer to be valid, but having never heard a same-time direct comparison I can't really say definitively.
I do think that the Rowland does a better job than the Gamut on powering the Andras to their full potential on orchestral crescendos etc. because of its huge power reserve. Detailing, resolution, soundstaging, are all exemplary.
I am quite pleased with the Rowland.
I haven't heard the latest Classe but was never a fan of their sound. I have many friends that owns them so it was strictly a personal taste issue.
I'll check out ASR Emitter when I want to simplify my all tube system. Just spent $3000+ retubing and still enjoy the flexibilty in tube rolling changing the sound depending on my mood.
Thanks for the overview. My biggest concern with an integrated is the lack of power to drive the Andra so it's great to hear that the Rowland has the capability.
Do you Andra II owners think Pass Labs XA-60.5 would drive the Andra II?
Room is 24x19.
The Pass Labs XA-60.5 might work okay for a small room, but it would be hard pressed to drive the dual 12 inch woofers to full effect in a medium to large room. The Andra II is fairly inefficient @ 88 db (with 6 ohm minimum).
I use the 200 wpc hybrid Lamm M2.1s and they seem to have enough muscle to get those big woofers to move quickly and tightly. IMHO, the minimum would be 100 wpc, and 200 will pretty much get all that these speakers can put out. (FYI, the Manufacturer recommends a minimum of 30 wpc (small room) up to 300 wpc).
I would love to try these speakers with the VAC Phi 300.1 stereo amp. It is a fantastic tube amp with 150 wpc. (But, unfortunately, that would mean buing all new cables, something that I am not willing to do at the moment.)
My two cents worth.
Kurt_tank, thanks. You confirm what I thought.
I use the Pass XA100.5 with my Eggleston Rosa (87dB, 6ohm) and I would not go with less power in my 15'X 16'X 7.5'room. They do control the two 6" woofers better than my old XA160 did. But I would say that the XA60.5 could not adaquately power the Andra II in a 24X19 room. But any of the larger X.5 or XA.5 should be fantastic with that speaker.
I'm not going to purchase an XA-100.5 in order to purchase Andra II speakers.
There comes a time when enough money has been spent on amplification and
speakers, and the XA-100.5/Andra II combo would be over the limit of what
would allow me to sleep at night.
I'll instead search for a more sensitive, higher/flatter impedance loudspeaker
that can be driven by the XA-60.5.
Thanks for the information.
That's a good decision. In fact, I am thinking about a more efficient speaker in my sytem too. Something around 90+dB. The Rosa just seems to lack big impact with horns and drums. And I think the issue is speaker/amp matching. I want to keep my Pass amp/preamp combo and explore speaker options.
I think you should look into the ASR Emitter II Exclusive B. This amp will easily drive your speakers. It's one of the most musical amps around. However, if you are still intereested in speakers, I have a pair of ESP Concert Grand Si speakers available. They are too large for my room since we moved. I've used them with Pass a while back and later with the ASR. What an awesome combination!
The Reference 3A Grand Veena may meet your requirements...
The Reference 3A Grand Veena may meet your requirements...
F1a (Threads | Answers)
Yes, they would in most respects.
Just received my Andra II's this month.
Tried several amps on them.
Audion 300b SET and VV52B ( both with volume controls) monos cant move them , neither on biamp configuration. Since I dont like PP tube amps went in other direction.
Class D ICE units. Bel Canto s300i was acceptable but something missing.
Then used the S300i just for highs and connected a s300 for bass. Adding the right power cords the result was astonishing. Im quite sure will go for ref1000Â´s plus a passive preamp then if it dont work use a tubes pre.
The result at this point pleases me a lot. Cant tell if is better than my Tannoy canterbury + SET amps but for sure are on the same league or better.
Anyway straight and simple , one of the best speakers out there.
After several tests changing electronics with the Andra IIÂ´s ,
my best results were with a Jadis Pre JPL and a Bel Canto s300.
Since the 300 BCD series has a low input impedance , them need a preamp or spurce with low output impedance and high gain.
The results were outstanding on a 18x23x7.5 room. ItÂ´s a very dry room where deep basses are almsot impossible to get.
The BCD + jadis fills the room easily , with nice tones , deep and controlled bass , etc..
The nice thing is that the BCD s300 is cheap and runs cold.
Probably there are better preamps there for this purpose .After trying EAR834 deluxe, JRDG consonance , Spectral dm-6 and my own Audion Premier line the winner was clear .
Since the demanding matching impedance/gain of the BCD and Andra power requirement, the best were obtained through the Jadis .
Jprice - I read your posts on the mac vs rowland thread and remembered your comments from this thread. Am thinking of an integrated for the Andra IIs as well and wondered if you still think the Continuum was still a good choice or do you think the mac would be the better choice now? Thanks for any insight
I no longer own the Rowland - and I sold the Eggleston Andra II speakers as well. I'm now using the McIntosh MA7000 on a pair of Sonus Faber Guarneri Mementos. I really like this combination and I'm (now) quite pleased with the Mac amp. But, as you are aware, the Mac puts out 250 watts of power at 2, 4, or 8 ohms and the Rowland starts off with 500 watts at 8 ohms and increases dramatically as the impedance lowers.
Considering the power-hungry nature of the Eggleston speakers, I can't help but thinking that the much more powerful Rowland might do a better job overall than the Mac on those speakers. This, however, is pure conjecture and is not based on experience or comparison.
I really loved the Continuum on the Eggleston speakers.
Great, thanks for your advice. That is the way I was leaning, so I might just give it a try and see.
Why did you change from E.W to the SFÂ´s?
Any comments ?
I have two systems at my home and both had "big" speakers.(Eggleston Andra II and Avalon Eidolon) I had been looking for a pair of monitor type speakers that would offer performance at about the same quality as the Egglestons and I think I came very close with the S.F. Mementos.
I changed mostly because of space requirements and because my wife appreciated a more modest looking set-up in a room that she wanted to reclaim as a family-use room. (Somehow she thought one dedicated listening room was enough)
Thanks for you answer.
I understand you since I also own 2 systems at home but on a different direction than yours .
My choice is to have different approaches on each system.
One is based on SET amps + Tannoy Canterbury and the other right now is built around the E.W.
Before the EW I had JBL 4350 + SET amps on that system but got tired of the same sound on 2 different places.
Which is better ... who cares , I cant live without both.
I think you should seriously consider having your wife see a professional. How can anyone think that one dedicated listening room enough?! It's either that or I think it is time for you to sign the committment papers to send her to an asylum! (Which would probably be for the best; just as long as you don't send her to the Audio Ayslum!) ;-)