So I went ahead and asked the question originally posted by @dpac996 then others, in terms of reclocking and a asynchronous USB DAC, directly to Innuos. This is the reply I received from Nuno copy/paste: ----------------
The PhoenixUSB does mainly three things: 1. It regulates the 5V line from the source, helping remove some noise from the source itself 2. It replaces the 5V power by one of the included Statement-level linear power supplies existing on the PhoenixUSB 3. It reclocks the USB signal with a very high-end OCXO clock, which is powered by its own power supply. Do not confuse this with the clocking for the audio signal, we are not touching the audio signal at all. We are reclocking the USB commnunication between the source and the DAC. You could even connect a USB drive to the PhoenixUSB if you like, although that probably would not make sense - this is just to illustrate the PhoenixUSB does not work at the audio level but at the USB protocol level. If you can hear a difference? Given all the feedback we had so far and the numerous shows we have done A/B, it is 100% guaranteed you will hear the difference right in the first seconds of hearing a track. it's not a subtle change... Hope this helps. Best Regards, Nuno Vitorino Director
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So you are trying to save my money and soul? What exactly are you trying to accomplish on this thread?
If you believe that "any decent modern DAC" will remove the noise, then that's fine, stick to your DAC, and don't worry about the source. |
@djones51: read Nuno's reply on #3:
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Do not confuse this with the clocking for the audio signal, we are not touching the audio signal at all. We are reclocking the USB commnunication between the source and the DAC......the PhoenixUSB does not work at the audio level but at the USB protocol level
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Guys: do not feed the Troll here. Do not engage him. The more you engage him, the more he will light it up. That’s what full time trolls do. Troll |
Ohhh.... poor me with MSB. I am going to rush out and buy a Topping DAC now 😂😂
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@steakster : 100% correct. This dude has 17 (seventeen) posts on a thread for something he clearly has zero interest in trying. I wonder why. So typical of such characters.... |
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Hi @Ron17: I am using an Audioquest Hurricane PC for PhoenixUSB. USB cable is a cheap China made from Ghent. I have a Sonore by Cardas USB cable from ZENith MK3 to PhoenixUSB.
In terms of sound: what I hear is a cleaner presentation, with a very audible improvement in instrument separation. A bit more focus to music. Definitely “smoother” sound, less “glare” that makes the sound more pleasant, and less tiring when listening for extended period of time.
@dvdboulet: I shared here the technical explanation of how PhoenixUSB works I received from Nuno at Innuos. A bit more info than it’s already in website, and a clarification on what is reclocked vs what isn’t. Unfortunately as it always happens in these public audio forums, such stuff gets buried inside the numerous interventions naughtiness caused by the trolls. |
Just a quick update, as I have a PhoenixUSB in my house for three days now: Bottom line: this thing works. And Nuno is right, the improvement is not subtle. Whoever is staying in the sidelines, should take the plunge. I am pretty sure people will love it, once becomes widely available, as currently only dealer demos are available with very few exceptions. And by the way, the whole “every modern DAC should be able to remove noise” thing.... good luck with that. My DAC is no slouch, and more than “a decent modern DAC”. It’s a MSB Discrete DAC with dual Discrete power supplies, and the ProISL / Pro USB module combo (optical isolation) I am linking below: https://www.msbtechnology.com/accessories/prousb/I am using ZENith MK3 as a Roon Core and Endpoint |
@dow jones: reclock your own clocks if you are so curious 😂😉
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His posts are similar to an American tourist who is asking a French gendarme for directions. If the officer doesn’t understand English, the American simply yells louder. LOL!!! Funniest thing ever! |
Now that our assigned Troll for this thread deleted all his posts (good riddance IMHO), it’s probably time to repeat the most common misconception about reclocking function of PhoenixUSB:
I don't think people realize that the USB signal does not get reclocked by the DAC. What they reclock on the DAC is the audio signal that is transported via USB. What the PhoenixUSB shows is that the USB communication components themselves are affecting the performance of the DAC. This has also independent of the isolation of the DAC. Innuos has tested on numerous DACs, some very well known in the market for its galvanic isolation, and the result is still the same - they can't really isolate the data lines so the source still matters.
Basically: PhoenixUSB reclocks the USB signal with a very high-end OCXO clock, which is powered by its own power supply. Do not confuse this with the clocking for the audio signal, they are not touching the audio signal at all. They are reclocking the USB commnunication between the source and the DAC. PhoenixUSB does not work at the audio level but at the USB protocol level.
And I am leaving out the two other aspects of the design. Namely (copy/paste):
1. It regulates the 5V line from the source, helping remove some noise from the source itself
2.. It replaces the 5V power by one of the included Statement-level linear power supplies existing on the PhoenixUSB
And I already shared my own impressions of actually owning the PhoenixUSB for myself, but that’s of course one man’s data point. So it’s all subjective, and I understand the skepticism.
For what’s worth: I did a few A/B tests last evening as well as today. Nothing scientific, no blind tests certified by a panel, just me, with and without Phoenix USB in the path. Results are clear, this brings my setup to a new level. It’s not even close. Not subtle. This is change of the same magnitude of upgrading to a better DAC (I have owned over two dozen DACs over the past 15 years)
I am definitely not hallucinating, as our assigned troll makes it sound.
I am not an Innuos shill. Just a happy customer. First with a ZENITH MK3 about a year ago. Now with Phoenix USB
Peace!
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@erik_squires : I fully understand your comment. I was in the same position, and I (still) don’t pretend to understand the reclocking part, re: the audio vs. signal part of the USB transmission. The proof in the pudding (is this the right word?) is trying for yourself, in your own system. Everything else is just talk and theory. That is of course if this intriguing enough for you to make you try
@david_ten : you are absolutely right. This caught me off guard with USB cables. While I am absolutely convinced on the Sonore by Cardas USB cable, from previous experiments, I did not have a second good USB cable when the PhoenixUSB arrived. Unprepared. I will definitely experiment further. I am eying a Shunyata Sigma USB, but too expensive for me for now |
Well said @steakster
With all due respect, you forgot two important things Innuos does with great promptness (based on my own experience):
1) Product support (“small” thing like the CEO doing remote sections to fix an issue)
2) Warranty support |
This is very encouraging @gasherbaum !
The problem is, it will take a while for Phoenix USB to be available for sale. Likely in 2020
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Hmmmm.... Zenith also provides a clean Ethernet output as well.
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Dave and Troy: OK thanks. Needless to say, this would be irrelevant if one feeds their DAC via USB (from either Statement or Phoenix / Zenith combo), and no Ethernet is needed for the DAC. But then, if that's the case, Phoenix is not needed anyway, right? |
Time will tell my friend. Whether that means mid-November, like Steve Gomez told me in person at CAF, or some time in 2020, time will tell 😉
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Hey @ron17 —- It seems like you have already done the math here. And since you have the previous generation of Zenith, I agree with you: go for the mighty Statement
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lalitk1,575 posts02-12-2020 12:48pm...other day I saw a dealer ad for a reclocker + USB cable bundle at a discounted price.
Link? |
keoliphant85 posts02-12-2020 8:07am@audiotroy Any updates on this product?
I am guessing they cannot keep up with the demand for Phoenix USB. Or maybe are having trouble with a supplier for one (or a few) of their components. I have not seen any recent post online in the past month or so from people who have received, and have seen no hands-on professional reviews. |
@ Dow Jones 51: nothing. Just looking to waste our money 😂
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Yes sure Ron, but you will probably need those footers for the Statement’s outboard power supply too. And probably upgrade the umbilical cord as well. You would definitely save on the additional AC power cord for sure
On another note, re: Phoenix USB, it’s my understanding that the only people who have actually received it, are select dealers as Demo. The only actual customer (non-dealer) I have personally “met” online that has confirmed possession of a Phoenix is located in Germany. None in US. Zip |
Hey @audiotroy : any of your customers got a PhoenixUSB at all? Or you only got one, the store demo? Please be honest. Thanks |
pipedream32 posts02-14-2020 2:55pmWe are NYC dealers for Innuos. Hopefully we will be getting our Phoenix order shortly. Just so popular everyone wants one.
LOL! That's what all dealers have been saying since last October |
You never answered my previous question @audiotroy . Let me try again: has any of YOUR customers received the PhoenixUSB? Be honest please |
@dpac996 —— If InnuOs released a variant with this reclocker circuit board stuffed inside it would be a class leader; They could still sell the standalone but for Pete’s sake they should stick it in the next Zen series and save us audiofools another usb cable, another power cable, another box.——-
That Innuos device you are describing already exists. It’s called Innuos Statement
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