Inner tracks vs outer tracks

Dear @thuchan  : It's obvious that you really support the unidin alignment that's " the best " not only for you but for several other low knowledge level audiophiles. Now you as many other gentlemans bougth the unidin protractor that comes with the Löfgren A/Baerwald Löfgren B, Stevenson and unidin with IEC and DIN standards ( why no JIS?. ) and paid for when  the " best/one " is unidin. Make sense to you pay for something/alignments that are  way "  inferior " to the " best "? and I know that people do not paid 200.00 but a lot lot more money: why more money?

Because as @millercarbon said:   all is about MONEY nothing more. Takes money from the people alignment very low knowledge levels. Nothing wrong with that because business is business and nothing comes by " free ".

Maybe @lewm  has a different opinion on that protractor alignments use.


Btw, the information in these links could be useful for you and maybe other protractor owners or to any audiophile:

https://odysseytonearms.blogspot.com/search/label/Formulae

https://odysseytonearms.blogspot.com/search/label/Dennesen%20Soundtractor

At the end: it's really a better alignment unidin than the Löfgren ? , certainly not only different and with disadvantages.

R.

Dear @almart1 : ""  Assuming zero tracking error across the record, will there be differences in sound between the inner and outher tracks? ""

Yes, always will be differences in sound. As a fact you posted somewhere in the thread.

Even with over LP surface zero traking error the only way to put at minimum the differences ( we can't avoid it. ) in between is to have a very well matched cartridge/tonearm combination and that the cartridge it self has high traking abilities.

R.

Dear @thuchan  : Sorry for my ignorance but I need your help. You posted:

""   stick to Mono related curves..""

and posted too that you use a stereo related curve. What happens when you want to listen a mono recording, that according you is different curve,: do you have to change the alignment or your " curve " knows ( somehow? ? ) if is mono and not stereo. How swtich it in between?

Can you explain it?, appreciated.

R.

@thuchan  :  Can you discern between 0.5804% and 0.5697% of tracking distortion levels?

Because that's the difference in between two consecutive grooves at near the LP center surface.
This tracking distortion level is changing at each single groove during playing and our brain perhaps can be aware of stand alone 0.5% but a little on the middle of the LP surface the tracking distortion level goes down to 0.106% and 0.105% that not even as a stand alone groove you or any one can detect it.
Our brain goes accustommed to those very low distortions even that can't detect it so where are the advantages between those differents alignments?

The main issue on cartridge/tonearm/TT overall alignment subject has a name and is: accuracy, that the alignment be accurated.

R:

Dear @thuchan : With all respect and only trying to help you as I said you are a follower and geometry alignment is not rocket science. It’s extremely simple.

Because is plain geometry/mathematics any one can manipulates numbers and achieve a different alignment.

That’s what Stevenson did it and that’s what the SAT tonearm did it too.

It’s a way to achieve a perfect alignment? NO it can’t do it and those mathemathics explain you why you can’t do it.

Stereo or Mono the main issue does not changes because exist a length in the LP surface, exist the recorded LP area, exist a begin of the recorded grooves ( this is the most out side groove. ), exist too a end recorded groove ( most inner groove ), exist the pivoted tonearm,etc, etc

Al those does not changes and it does not matters what you want to do you must take in count that most inner/outer grooves distances to make your calculations ( stereo or not. ). Maybe you can ake other " road " but at the end:

the main subject for the alignment calculations ( any kind. ) in any pivoted tonearm is to obtain the overhang and off-set angle to mount in accurated way the cartridge to the tonearm and the tonearm in the TT.

From where do you think comes the null points? do you know which is the use of those null points? do you know from where comes the tracking distortion numbers over the LP recorded surface? why exist the inner/outer most grooves different standards as: IEC, DIN or JIS that achieve different calculations alignment parameters values?

Do it a favor and find out by your self the rigth answers to those questions with out ask any one and you can be sure that when you achieve the rigth answers then you already understand in deep the alignment subject.

That’s all and till today you still just can’t understand it ( because I think that you not even intented to do it. ) and if you follow been a " follower " ( yes I know that him told you discovered the " black thread ".) you will live your audio life deseiving in this specific subject. Is up to you.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

"" When you want enjoying a LP with all tracks you better move ..., also regarding the last songs on the record. "

in the chart/diagram of the link you can SEE that your statement is not true.

Btw, do you know that the SAT tonearm manipulated alignment gives you better " numbers " that all those alignments.? with lower distortion levels?

NOW, if you are so sure about then please share with all of us a comparison between " your " alignment and Löfgren or SAT or what ever one of its distortion levels over the recorded LP surface. Easy, please do it. Appreciated.

@thuchan , we don't need explanations but numbers>/facts: hard numbers. Got it?

Dear @thuchan : With all respect and only trying to help you as I said you are a follower and geometry alignment is not rocket science. It’s extremely simple.

Because is plain geometry/mathematics any one can manipulates numbers and achieve a different alignment.

That’s what Stevenson did it and that’s what the SAT tonearm did it too.

It’s a way to achieve a perfect alignment? NO it can’t do it and those mathemathics explain you why you can’t do it.

Stereo or Mono the main issue does not changes because exist a length in the LP surface, exist the recorded LP area, exist a begin of the recorded grooves ( this is the most out side groove. ), exist too a end recorded groove ( most inner groove ), exist the pivoted tonearm,etc, etc

Al those does not changes and it does not matters what you want to do you must take in count that most inner/outer grooves distances to make your calculations ( stereo or not. ). Maybe you can ake other " road " but at the end:

the main subject for the alignment calculations ( any kind. ) in any pivoted tonearm is to obtain the overhang and off-set angle to mount in accurated way the cartridge to the tonearm and the tonearm in the TT.

From where do you think comes the null points? do you know which is the use of those null points? do you know from where comes the tracking distortion numbers over the LP recorded surface? why exist the inner/outer most grooves different standards as: IEC, DIN or JIS that achieve different calculations alignment parameters values?

Do it a favor and find out by your self the rigth answers to those questions with out ask any one and you can be sure that when you achieve the rigth answers then you already understand in deep the alignment subject.

That’s all and till today you still just can’t understand it ( because I think that you not even intented to do it. ) and if you follow been a " follower " ( yes I know that him told you discovered the " black thread ".) you will live your audio life deseiving in this specific subject. Is up to you.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

""  When you want enjoying a LP with all tracks you better move ....., also regarding the last songs on the record. ""

that is a confirmation that even that chart/diagram in the link you can follow it to take in count why you are wrong with your kind of statements..

Dear @thuchan : After all these years I’m sorry to say it but maybe because you still don’t understand the geometry algnment issue you are really wrong with your statements, especially that alignment option that in reality can’t help on the inner grooves distortions levels as you said.

You can look here about:

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/uni-din-versus-l%C3%B6fgren-b-just-clarify

there the Löfgren A alignment inner null point is at 66mm. against 63.3mm of the other alignment. Please explain how that makes not a true difference but is the solution for the OP?, even Löfgren B makes a good work at 70mm and way superior to " your " touted alignment all over the other parts of the LP surface grooves.


In the other side: how many LPs has the OP with grooves/recorded at the inner 70mm-60mm ?

Do it you a favor and read the last 3 posts in that MF thread linked.

Btw, after you understand the main geometry alignment subjects/characteristics you could easily " design " your own alignment and I mean it. Every one can do it.

So try to learn by your self because your statements means that after over 15 years you are " seated " in the same chair with out growing-up because you are and converted only in a " follower " ! ! but learned almost nothing. Are you satisfied with?

Do not do it through other people and remember that there is no single perfect solution for the cartridge/pivoted tonearm geometry alignment. Always exist trade-offs.

R.

Dear @almart1 : "  May be due to better system resolution. Which bothers me a little. "

A linear tracking tonearm can't improve per sé the quality recorded sound in those inner LP grooves.

Any one can improve the inner grooves quality sound if: the choosed cartridge/tonearm combination is well matched, if the cartridge has high tracking abilities, with a really good phono stage and with a truly rigth cartridge/tonearm geometry alignment set up through an accurated protractor.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.