In wall power cabling- for Apartment Dweller


I need some advice on what kind of in wall power cabling (reasonably priced to cheap) is a step up from whatever my Landlord's go-to electrician would pick up at Lowe's to do the job.

I'm going to be installing 2 dedicated lines, and I need some knowledge on what brands of cable to use. Also, I won't be purchasing "audiophile Grade" circuit breakers, if they are expensive, but anyone have knowledge re: circuiut breakers- i.e. 15 amp, etc and some manufacturers that make them better than others, etc...

I've got my "Porter Ports" on the way (thanks again Albert!)
and I need to know what to do next.
Keep in mind that, once I move, 100% of my investment will be lost, so I'm not going to be purchasing anything that is really expensive.

I live in rental apartments and my solution has been to get a 220V in/110V out ONEAC isolation transformer. It has two dedicated, individually fused 110V outlets. It has plenty of beef for the job. You can also get a 10 ampere Elgar AC regenerator for ~ $250 in the surplus market. I use both.
The only choice you have in wire that's not costly is romex, but have them run 10 guage to your power ports.
It would be nice to have three lines run as you can use the first one for Amps, second one for Digital and third for Preamp etc.. Next I would pick up a few PS Audio Ultimate Outlets as you can take these with when you move! You can pick up U/O for around $225 each used here on Agon. If it's in the budget check out a used P-600 for around $1300 Happy Upgrading!
The beauty of Psychicanimal’s post is everything that he listed is located outside of the inner walls (cables run on the floor). When you move you can take it all with you! When you set up a system in a permanent home setting, you already have what you need to run VERY CLEAN POWER (probably cleaner filtered power than 85%-95% of the users of Audiogon). Only slight drawback is that the isolation transformer needs 220 AC.
simply use #10awg solid copper THHN conductors - inexpensive, so no problem leaving it behind. Cable designer Mike VansEvers advised that it's good enough for him & it's certainly doing me a fine job too. One single circuit runs the whole works.
Breakers are pretty much dictated by the manufacturer of the distribution panel - you have to buy what will fit there.
Standard circuit breakers.
15 Amp breakers @ 104volts (I doubt you really have 110v) is good for 1560 watts.
Unless you have some sort of monster equipment that requires huge amounts of current 12-2 wire is more than enough.
The Psyco's solution isn't half bad. Unless you have kids running around.
Here's the *compact* solution: get a Richard Gray Power Co. unit, a DeZorel Filter with two or three bricks and an ACME silver plated cryo'ed receptacle...
THanks guys.
My inquiry was directred at what in-wall cable to use.
I was planning on just running 2 lines, 1 analog (TT, phono preamp, and Integrated amp) and one Digital (CD, SACD/DVD/CD).

I don't have any monster amps, should I just get 2 15 amp breakers?- one for the digi and one for the analog- or get a 20 amp brreaker for the amp, etc?


12-2 wire = 2 12 gauge conductors, AND A GROUND?

What is THHN???

If that's the case go with two 20 amp breakers and #10 wire just to be picky.
Gthirteen, I think you are making a mistake. Voltage in apartments fluctuates and is extremely dirty, especially "the 7:00 PM grunge". You'll just end with noisy dedicated and fluctuating lines that you won't be able to take when you move. My previous post suggesting a DeZorel and a Richard Gray will solve that.
Ok, I live in a house that I rent, not an apt complex.
Same dedicated grunge applies, at least unless if you have no neighbors and are alone on the power grid.
Is there any problem with solid core 10/2 awg Romex for the 20 amp line and 12/2 awg Romex for the 15 amp line? Is Romex "worst" sounding than THHN, MC, BX, etc.? Do you really need to use anything less than 10 awg? Is there a role or advantage for cryogenic treatment of the in-wall wire?
OK, 4yanx, in your opinion, will dedicated power lines to my box sound worse than having all my gear AND all other outlets and lights, fans, etc, on the same circuit?
Maybe you'd agreee that I should just get a walkman?!?!

Obviously, there is something to be said for active AC cleansing. However, I have a pretty good situation, I live in a smallish town, and I have a REALLY quiet system as it is, just no ground connection on my existing outlets. Fine, I figured that I would just replace the outlets. WRONG!
No ground WIRES in the wall. So, my landlord will run a line for me- why not make it 2?

I already have some outlets on the way, so I thought that I would inquire among the other Audiogonners as to what TYPE of IN WALL POWER WIRE has been used succesfully.

I am sure, that, if I live in NYC or LA, that I'd have noisy power, and I'd need to address it. However, I'm just running these lines for safety purposes, and since its going to happen whether I want it or not, I figured I might as well try and find out what cable sounds good.

SO, That's what I'm attempting to get some help with.

Aponter4- I don't see why not. As strange as it sounds, I think that if a Power cable from teh wall to the component that has been cryoed sounds better, why wouldn't 100' of in wall cable present some audible change for the better?

Thanks guys, keep it coming.
g13, the question of a Walkman is your call. (perhaps at this point we have equally exchanged sarcasms and continue)

You asked for advise, Psychic gave some sound options and you seem not to agree. His point was that even if you do rewire in the walls, there will still be grunge. OBVIOUSLY, a dedicated line will be BETTER than what you have presently (and I said nothing to indicate otherwise). The thing is, most people here are looking for the ultimate in improvements and have experiences to share. Whether or not you decide to employ them is a matter of choice, not a question of right wrong, or someone else trying to force you what to do.

Several have given suggestions centered on the type of wire and breakers only. Bob gave a cost-effective solution (based on wire being the only change). Maybe give it a try and see if it is enough. If you live in an area where simply upgrading the wire and establishing a dedicated line is sufficient, you are, indeed, fortunate.

BTW, before doing my dedicated lines, I installed a set of Albert's cryoed outlets and was stunned at the difference just THOSE made.
From a past post of mine:

I would recommend several dedicated 20 amp circuits and cryogenically treated outlets. See below:

Here is some information from several of my posts on Audiogon (another similar topic).

“I have experimented over the last year with various wires to use for dedicated 20-amp circuits. I have the following wire in use in no special order:
1) 10 gage Romex
2) 10 gage UV
3) Belden 83802
4) Virtual Dynamics 10 gage BX Cryogenically treated with Cryo’d circuit breaker. *

I have not tried the following but I’m sure it works, 10 gage solid THHN (white/black/green) manually (electric drill) spiral twist and snake through conduit.

To my ears on my revealing system I hear NO difference between (1-4)! I think simply using a dedicated circuit with 10 gage copper makes the biggest difference.

* There might be other positive factors to using cryogenically treated wiring besides sonics. It might lower the operating temperature of equipment.

Psychicanimal is correct, with good gear and experience you will benefit greatly from additional filtering. The two dedicated circuits and cryo'd outlets are a great start.
Thanks guys!

I appreciate the help.

ALso, what, if any info, have you guys seen on regenerators and negative physical effects and humans?

The PS audio, according to some old ad copy, was supposed to be, essentially, a power amp that puts out energy at a specific frequency.

I'm no electrician, and certainly not a physicist, and my understanding of the technology that makes me smile and boogie (when no one is watching)is severely limited compared to many of the other goNers. But I believe Dekay, in a recent thread, commented on some Doctor friend of his advising against a power regenerator for health reasons.

My enviroment is similar to yours G13. Small town with fairly stable clean power.
I just ran from a 15 amp breaker one run of 12-2 (yep 2 wire one ground) to a junction box where I then spliced 2 short (4 foot) runs of 12-2 flexible twisted wire cable to Hubbel connectors> (HBL4PBI 4-Plex receptacle Portable BOx in conjunction with IG420 4-Plex Receptacle-orange).
But what I did was drill a hole in the floor in the corner of the room where my "extension" cord comes up through the floor. I just pulled the carpet off the tack strips.
When I move I just have to terminate the set-up at the junction box, pull the four foot run up out of the floor, put the carpet back in place and go on with life.
The cabling I used worked FOR ME. (bought at Home Center,
plugs from W.W. Grainger)
Did make a differnce, for the better, in how MY system sounded.
In my opinion if your situation is similar to mine don't go crazy with what you are trying to accomplish.

For reference my system:
Threshold T-100 Amp
Audio Research LS-15 Pre
Ah! 4000 used as a transport
Perpetual Technologies digital engine
MSB Gold Link III Dac
Balance cabling where possible.
Niam speaker wires to Spendor 1/2's
And I'm as happy as a pig in ***t with how my system sounds.
G13, Go to PS Audio web site and look up
This will give you the whole story with isolation transformes! also check out the other power products!
Happy Listening!