In need high-efficency speakers


I recently purchased a preowned Mystere IA-11 40 watt tube integrated amp to replace a 120 wpc SS amp. Overall it has a very satisfying sound with plenty of detail, dynamics and a tight bass for a tube amp.

The problem is the combination of our large town-home living/dining room combo with my 87db DIY Seas Froy Mk3 speaker, powered by the 40 watt amp means it can’t play loud, especially a problem with movies or TV specials.

I was hoping to change to the Zu Audio Omen Mk2 or Klipsch Heresy III high-efficency speakers. My wife and I agree it is unwise to spend that kind of money with our current finances. The Zu Dirty Weekend would be a cheaper option, but the Klipsch would look better in our living room.

So I’m looking for solid advice on what to do from this audiophile community.

Here is a link to my ’Virtual System’ if that will help.
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/7252

Thanks all,
Mike
1d10a659 adb3 4156 a1e3 005554c6d05cmjcmt
Check out Tekton speakers. Eric Alexander will take care of you.
Great Plains Audio. 

Best,

E
Look for the 2 that you really want pre-owned.
" Check out Tekton speakers. Eric Alexander will take care of you"
+1 / Really enjoying mine
Not a fan of the Zu Omen - sounded thin and brittle.  I think the Klipsch are much better.  However, I believe Zu allows you to upgrade within the year and if you move up the Zu chain things get better.
Low power tube amp can be an issue once trying to drive floorstanders not sure changing your speakers will solve this problem.It’s better take your Mystere to a local dealer and check it out with some speakers before making any decision.
40 watts will drive Tekton's well. I drive mine with 18 watt Valvet mono's. I also have an older 50 watt class A amp as a back up. Either combination works great. 
I rave about my Klipsch Heresy IIIs here frequently...99db efficiency is hard to beat, they sound fabulous, and are somewhat unobtrusive (relative to the surroundings obviously, but they're short and fat). I use them with 2 smallish REL subs and a 12 wpc single ended tube amp in a medium largish room.
If you can afford it consider the new Klipsch Forte III speakers.
Purchase them from a major store on eBay (free shipping) and negotiate
the price. Bassed on size and color options I believe they would look good in your room. Feel free to PM me if you want additional information.
BTW: there was only one dealier in my area that carried Klipsch and they did not have the Forte III’s.
I doubt sensitivity is the issue and the load might play a bigger role. 40 watts will get you around 103 db at 1 meter and that isn't anything to scoff at. If the amp can't handle the load of the speaker though it won't be a pleasant experience. If you are looking for reference levels then that's a different story and you'd need a high powered amp with high sensitivity speakers. 

Does the amp have different taps? If so you might try playing around with them. 
Remember, the Heritage Klipsch products are reproductions of their products when *all* the home amplification was low-powered tubes.
Klipsch claims a 99dB sensitivity rating with 1 watt input for the Heresy III.
Tekton has new model set... check it out
I understand the attraction to tube amps, but why did you make the move from the 120 wpc ss amp ? What was it you did not like ? Not being negative, just would like to know, so I may give my input. Enjoy ! MrD.
jaytoy:
It's the Tekton Perfect model at only 1800 bucks; perfect timing for Mike; give Eric a call...
mrdecibel asks an excellent question. The answer will help us give you better advice.
Simple answers, I just wanted to go back to a tube amp and like Mystere amp. My speakers sound great w/ tube amp as well as solid state, just would like more volume in some situations.
I like Mindlessminions comment on Zu and suspected that, reading and watching youtubes vids.
I like Wolf Garcias comment on Heresy III and is what I think would be best. Will have to figure out how to buy them. Looks like I'll be having quiter sound than I'd like for a while longer.
Im not sure on Tekton. Looks interesting from a quick look. Not as efficient too. I'll have to study them some more.

Or you could try adding a powered sub and only sending frequencies above 50 to 100Hz to your mains. This would free up a lot of headroom for your current amplifier. 
I'm a Zu Omen DW owner and love 'em, but in your case I would ignore all of our blather and just buy them both.  Zu gives you 60 days in home with free returns.  Crutchfield sells Heresys and also gives you 60 days and only charges $10 for returns, so you literally have nothing to lose by getting both and sending back the loser.  
Also, what is your budget?
+1 on whoopycat’s suggestion.  Room, equipment and personal tastes really makes an audition critical, though I admit I have bought based on hype only later to sell.
Both the Zu Omem and Klipsch are over my budget. Couldn't extend myself to purchase both at one time. I'm aware of the return policies. Trying to narrow it down. Zu DW fits budget best, Heresy is my 1st choice, but more costly, and very intrigued w Omen2, but if Zu is lean and thin sounding I'm becoming concerned.
 Audiothesis, I'm in NC north of Charlotte. Not to much around me.
Coincident speaker technology in Canada.  Wayyyyy better than anything with a horn.
@elevick , just your opinion, as I disagree. Enjoy ! MrD.
@elevick another strong opinion against coincident. But I'm glad you've found your nirvana 
Considering that i have owned hereseys and cornwalls, i am personally much happier with 3 different pairs of coincidents.  The horn tweeters get old....
Also, coincidendts have much better WAF and i get better imaging due partially to the smaller footprint.
Anyway, it would take quite alot to get me to ever own Zu.  Made my ears hurt for a week.
Check out Decware speakers. Talk to Steve there (owner and designer) and tell him your details. He'll advise you. 

Disclosure: I do not own Decware amps or speakers. But I did spend a happy listening afternoon in the Decware workshop. 
A question for the OP: When you say that you can’t get enough volume with the combination of your 40 watt amp and 87 db speakers, is the symptom (a) if you turn the volume control up past a certain point you hear clipping distortion, indicating that the amp can't supply enough power, or (b) you simply run out of range on the volume control, and at its maximum setting the sound is undistorted but is not loud enough, which would signify a gain problem rather than a power problem?

One reason I ask is that the 30 db gain of your Mystere integrated amp is on the low side, for an integrated. Another reason I ask is that as Audiothesis stated earlier "40 watts will get you around 103 db at 1 meter and that isn’t anything to scoff at." (And that is from just one speaker, not two. Although it assumes that the specs on the amp and speaker are accurate. Also, at distances greater than 1 meter that volume will fall off at 6 db per doubling of distance, neglecting room effects).

All of which leaves me unsure as to whether the problem is not enough power capability for your 87 db speakers, or not enough gain, or perhaps both. If the problem is not enough gain, there are probably solutions that are considerably less expensive than purchasing new speakers.

Regards,
-- Al
P.S. to my previous post: Keep in mind also that the difference between the 120 watt capability of your previous solid state amp and the 40 watt capability of the Mystere is only 4.8 db. And the resulting maximum volumes provided by the two amps may have differed by even less than that, if the speakers were starting to undergo "thermal compression" as the 120 watt amp approached its maximum power capability, and also because tube amps tend to enter their clipping region less abruptly than solid state amps.

All of which adds to my suspicion that the issue might be a gain problem and not a power or speaker sensitivity problem.

Regards,
-- Al
@elevick what Zu did you audition?I found huge difference between their lower price models and the Druid.

Specific to Coincidents, I have always wanted to hear.  They are 1st order crossover design correct?  What model do you prefer?
87db 1 watt
90db 2 watts
93 4 watts
96 8 watts
99 16 watts
102db 32 watts
40 watts might hit 103 cleanly?
Thx is 110, ultra 112
It's all subjective but if you like it loud, 87 db with 40 watts wont cut it.  And yes, i know thats at 1 meter.  We have to keep all things in equal perspective.. 

I run 10 watts on 96db speakers and it will never "rock" but does sound sweet.  My 325 wpc mac into the coincidents will do anything.

For Coincidents, I cant play with $25k speakers but used eclipses would be great.  Used Triumphs are a nice find but rare.
Al,
When I had the Consonance C100 (rebadged Hegel H1) 120wpc we found turning volume to 11oclock was necessary at time w/ certain movies/tv for full enjoyment.
With the Mystere I've had volume to 11:00/1:00 position and find it can be too quiet at times particularly w movies and dialogue. An irritation and quieter than we like. Music generally is fine as we don't play it as loud. I'm afraid to turn it up further, as there is a bit of hardening to the sound at 12:00. The 7:00-10:00 position seems to be the sweat spot w/ music.
I have some cheap Klipsch 3.1 94db efficiency monitors with a more prominent midrange and can get a respectable volume at the 11:00 o'clock position, hence the search for more efficient speakers.
...there is a bit of hardening to the sound at 12:00.

Thanks for the additional info, Mjcmt.

Roughly speaking, a typical single-turn rotary volume control such as the one on your Mystere will provide around 22 db or so of attenuation at the 12 o’clock position. Your Yamaha Blu-Ray/CD/SACD player has a maximum output that is nominally spec’d at 2 volts. The approximately 8 db of gain provided by the amp at the 12 o’clock setting (30 db max gain - 22 db of attenuation by the volume control) will boost a 2 volt input to about a 5 volt output.

5 volts into what I suspect is the 4 ohm impedance of your speakers corresponds at most to 6.25 watts, and to less than that to the extent the speaker’s impedance is not purely resistive.

So as I see it you are not turning the volume control up high enough to utilize most of the power capability of the amp. However I have no thoughts as to why the sound is hardening at higher settings of the control.

Regards,
-- Al
P.S:  I see that you also have a FiiO D-3 DAC.  Its maximum output rating is 1.6 volts, which is only about 2 db less than that of the Yamaha.  So what I said in my previous post with respect to the Yamaha is essentially applicable to the FiiO D-3 as well.

Regards,
-- Al
Recently purchased Heresy IIIs and a Coincident Dynamo 34SE mkii 8 Watt SEP amp.  Being driven by a Mytek Brooklyn DAC/preamp. Formerly had Audio Research gear and Focal Electra 1007BE standmounts. Totally gobsmacked about the resolution and dynamic range of these speakers. They have a reputation of being a party speaker, but to me they sound great listening to all genres at low volumes in my 12x14 foot den.  They can be placed close to the rear wall, have a cool retro look and are unobtrusive in the room as Wolf points out. His posts and system had a lot of influence on my decision. 
Have you considered buying used? Not sure how much improvements were made with the IIIs, but would think you could pick up some IIs for less than $1000/pr. 
Best regards, 
Dave

Where the volume control is pointing has NOTHING AT ALL to do with power. It is relative to gain. Turn it up.
Ok Ill turn the volume up more. Was  afraid of damaging amp and/or speakers. Hardening may just be room reflections in lively space.

Decvans,
Thanks for your listening experience w Heresy III. I'm excited about the prospect of owning them, but it may be a slow train coming. I've read IIIs are smoother and better than earlier version with mods.
Tekton Design in Utah. They just introduced a new speaker named "The Perfect SET". I am ordering a set today.....
Btw Al, Mystere doesn't have regular rotary pot volume but resister ladder control, if that matters.
To all Teton lovers responding. Tectonic 'the perfect set' looks interesting, though unusual looking and a bit lower in efficiency.
Tekton...got to love spell check when in a hurry.
Btw Al, Mystere doesn’t have regular rotary pot volume but resister ladder control, if that matters.

Photos of the amp appear to show that the minimum position of the control is around 6:30 or 7 o’clock or so, and the max position is around 5 or 5:30 o’clock or so. And of course the control is rotated between those positions, as opposed, for example, to a control that is rotatable through multiple turns (with a separate indication of the volume setting being provided), or a control that consists of an up button and a down button. Given that, whether the control is a continuous pot or a stepped resistor ladder makes no difference with respect to what I said earlier.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al
Dcevans,
If you want to be amused, Israel Blume went on an amp buying spree some years ago before he started making amps.  This is  how I got introduced to Coincident.  He traded me a pair of Conquests for my fully restored pair of Dynaco MKIVs.  I would be curious if the Dynaco design carried over at all.
I went from 200 wpc Aragon amp with Large Infinity Rennaisance 90 floor standers, to Quicksilver 40  watt tube monoblock amps with Proac 1sc stand mounters, and small 10" powered servosubwoofers, and I am enjoying the hell out of them.
@eag618 What is the wait time for delivery?  Have you auditioned Tekton speakers?
Mjcmt Call Louis at Omega speakers, He does excellent high efficient speakers as well...
I purchased Zu Omen dirty weekend speakers about 4 years ago and am very happy with them.

When I ordered I was able to swap out the Omen 10" drivers for the Soul Superfly 10" drivers.

Zu did a great job since they installed a tweeter that matched the Superfly drivers better and upgraded the crossover for the same reason.

If you like deep bass you'll need a sub with them.  Mine are very detailed.

Impedance is between 12 and 16 ohms so they are easy to drive.

I haven't tried them with any tube amps though.
eag618, if you buy the Tekton Perfect SET, please let us know what you think of them.  Martin
You can still buy Heresy IIIs (I was surprised when I received the "Capitol" edition from these guys...there's a more expensive list for these with different finishes than regular Heresy IIIs, otherwise technically identical) from the same Ebay seller where I bought my pair last December.  Still $1499 with free shipping, factory warranty, and a generous return policy. Look for "acousticsounddesign" in Gabbs Nevada. Mine arrived (I live near Boston) in 3 days from the order.