- 90 posts total
- 90 posts total
My impression of Toole is he’s basically your garden variety old school gum flapper.
Toole is a giant and our ability to buy and enjoy the best in audio reproduction rests on the shoulders of men like him. I don't agree with everything he says, but his engineering skills are top notch and his willingness to pass that to others is priceless.
I am active on ASR but I am trying to be less active. It’s hard because it’s one of the nicer communities that exist in this hobby so I keep coming back. I disagree with you about their measurements and claim that they are unscientific. They are more scientific then Nelson Pass. I won’t make any claims about Bose or Toole but I think Toole is highly respected (and often misquoted) on ASR as well. A lot of the points you make would actually be agreed upon by many ASR members.
Seperate from all of this is my observation that the forum consists largely of sycophants. Amir is too defensive when it comes to criticism of his measurement process, of which there has been plenty. He generally listens to feedback, but not without throwing a fit.
That being said, ASR is one of the best websites that exist online. His measurements are extremely helpful and beneficial for newcomers to the hobby like me.
To me there is a chasm between 'science' and technology applied in creating/making great hifi gear, and 'measurement' as a tool to evaluate gear and assess its quality. Clearly the former is essential in pushing the state of art forward, both in terms of absolute performance, and in providing more consumers with improved performance at a given price point.
ASR is an interesting site, like all sites it is seeking attention, membership and participation, Like all reviews (from JA at Stereophile from way back posting measurements after the qualitative reviews) they need to be taken with a grain of salt, but it still can be informative at some general level, and more importantly, entertaining -- if you are into such things.
For me, in my travels through this hobby, I just feel that there is only mediocre correlation between gear that sounds great and measures great. Single ended tube amps driving horns can be a joy, but will measure very poorly. In the end, it is about the music, I trust my ears to tell me what is better for me, above all else.
Hey d2girls always a pleasure.
I am active on ASR but I am trying to be less active. It’s hard because it’s one of the nicer communities that exist in this hobby
Seems like that to me!!
I disagree with you about their measurements and claim that they are unscientific. They are more scientific then Nelson Pass.
I think you missed my whole point. Here's the thing, if you define "scientific" as "measurement driven" then you are right, ASR is "scientific." However, science does not end at the oscilloscope, nor should oscilloscope measurements ascribe value or desirability. That's kind of my point.
Pass is involved very much in research and development. He has a target sound, behavior and distortion profile. His approach is very much to experiment, listen and measure. He's doing real life science. It may not be to achieve the targets the folks at ASR think he should, but he's actually pushing the state of the art in matching electronic devices to human experience. That's science.
If I measure things defined 40 years ago, and give those measurements power to define how I spend money, well, unless I'm buying paint, or lubricant, that is not really scientific.