Improving streaming SQ

For me the Wireworld Starlight CAT8 Ethernet cable made a notable difference compared to stock CAT6 cable between router and music server/streamer.

If you can manage, try the SoTM cable. I am using this cable with my N10...amazing sounding cable with a on board filter, very effective in lowering the noise floor. 

https://sotm-usa.com/products/sotm-dcbl-cat7-lan-cable

Audioengr,

My Aurender is A10, not the N10.  The A10 is the one box Streamer/DAC combo.  What do you recommend in this case?

As someone else just pointed out, make sure you disable Tidal's volume normalization.

Ethernet is by design galvanically isolated. This is because of the distance and potential for major differences in voltage potential with different devices using different circuits.

So, I'd call BS on any Ethernet isolator.

However, power supply noise is a big deal. Make sure any other digital devices, especially those with wall warts, are not on the same power filter circuits. This applies to routers, switches, cable TV boxes, etc.

Best,
E

that - was inevitable. 

after all, this _is_ forum.audigon.com.

@audioengr 

Which is superior in terms of sound quality?  The Ethernet or USB input on the DAC?

I understand you also like the SOtM switch. Still, it is $800. I am using Cardas Ethernet cables and the “Black Box” ($100) for galvanic isolation. I run my Router into a 24 port switch to my system using CAT6 into a four-port switch. Will replacing the four-port switch with a SOtM switch make a noticeable difference? Would I have to buy two SOtM switches so I could bypass the 24-switch?

BTW, I have met Steve Nugent aka @audioengr He is the real thing: an accomplished DAC designer.

Good point about the volume equalization.... it destroys the dynamic range

Where is this "volume normalization/equalization" in Tidal??

Uberwaltz, click the heart shaped “my collection “ bottom right in the Tidal app, then click the “gear wheel” icon top right.  You will then open the page to see the slide button to disable normalization loudness compensation.
For my listening, I leave it off.  You can easily switch back and forth as needed.

That's what I thought, just in Tidal app.
I use tidal inside of Bluos app and that,option I do not see inside that app.
It is set to off in the tidal app itself but I do not know if that carries over to when tidal is being used via the bluos app or not.
But thank you!

It is not accessible through the BluOS app.  You need to go to the actual Tidal app.  
Yes it does carry over.  The Tidal app is your subscription to their service.  Whether you access that subscription through BluOS or another app from a different manufacturer, you are listening to music from Tidal via the settings in your subscription from Tidal.  So, no matter the streamer in use, the most accurate sound will be with normalization in the off position.

Then I should be good as it is switched off via the Tidal app itself.
All good to know as I did not know if it carried over.
Again thank you

Good thing to know about Tidal. I have been paying the premium price for Tidal for quite awhile. I shut this switch off too, but also noticed I had my streaming set for the "HI-Fi" mode and not the "Masters" selection. I hadn't realized it till I looked in the settings. This is my fault and should have checked it sooner. The sound with these two simple changes improved the sound quality pretty dramatically. Lesson learned.....

Mr-m.
I am on Tidal premium too but do not have a "masters" streaming option showing?
Just normal, high and hifi.

@uberwaltz,
I don't think there is a 'Masters' streaming option from the list.
If I do play a Masters album, my DAC shows that the file is in high resolution.
Bob

Bob
I know I do not see a Masters streaming option but Mr-M posted that they did so wondered what if anything I was missing?
I must state that I access Tidal via an android app, wonder if anything more to be seen on a desktop app?

I started this thread so I thought I should chime in.  I access Tidal thru my Aurender A10's Conductor app and stream fully decoded MQA files with my $19.99 subscription.  When I checked my Tidal subscription on my iMac I found that it was set to "Hi-FI" not "Masters" so I changed it.  I can't tell a particle of difference.  Prior to the change both the window on the A10 and the display on the Conductor app showed 24bit/48,96,188,192, or 352khz depending on the track.  It still shows the same thing and sounds the same so, for me, moving the button to "Masters" did not improve anything.

 In settings though, I was able to find a tab under "Sound" called "Sound Output".  It has two choices, "Default built-in output" or "Built-in output".  If you click on Built-in output, you can enable/disable 3 features: Exclusive Mode, Force Volume (which I assume is the volume normalization), and Passthrough MQA.

The text under Exclusive Mode reads:"With Exclusive Mode, Tidal has exclusive use of the audio device.  This option only has effect for HiFi and Master playback"  Does anyone know what this means?  Also, I wonder if disabling MQA decoding has any effect on SQ for those without MQA DAC's?"

Shoff, there is a separate slider button to disable normalization.  It is on the main page, not within the the sound tab.

rhljazz,

Thanks for trying to help.  However, I can find no such slider button on the main page.  On the left, from the top down is my user name with icon, "Home" and "Explore".  Then, under My Collection, I see icons for My Mix, Albums, Tracks, Videos, and Artists.  Then comes My Playlists with an icon for New Playlists.  I can't find a slider button.  What am I missing?

Press the gear wheel icon on the upper right corner.  This will open the page.

It sounds like there IS a setting for masters but in a desktop app, might have to load it onto my pc to check as under the android app max setting is hifi.

OP, as said top right corner there is a little gear wheel, this will open a few more settings like normalization and streaming quality etc.

So just downloaded the desktop app and there is indeed a selection for masters available under streaming that is not shown using the tidal android app.
Very interesting.
You keep on learning!

On the desktop app on my pc is where I found all the info about the Masters setting.

Thx Mr_m.

As you can see from my previous posts it is ONLY to be found on desktop app, it is NOT shown on android app, only 3 choices there, 4 choices on desktop app.

rhljazz,

Thanks again for trying to help.  However, there is no gear wheel in the upper right of MY app, only the search box.  Could this be an iMac vs. PC difference?

OP, get a turntable.

My Tidal app is on an iPad and iPhone.  So it appears that the app format is different between pc and portable devices.
Perhaps uberwaltz can point out where the loudness normalization setting exists in the pc format.

It appears that the loudness normalization is only extant on my android Tidal app and the streaming "masters" option is only on my windows pc desktop app.
TBH....ABSURD!

I can't hear difference of CAT5 CAT6 or Wifi. But PC unfolding MQA makes big difference.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this discussion.  No one seems to have any direct experience with the Artistic Fidelity GISO GB Isolator, but I did find a dealer in Germany who is willing to refund my $$ if I'm not completely satisfied with it, providing I pay with PayPal  and pay return postage.  I may do this.  Although audioengnr's solution would probably sound  best, I'm not looking to spend over $2k to find out.  

However, in researching I did find that Transparent Audio makes a two port $155 Plug-In Protector that accepts the ethernet cable from your wall, plugs into your power conditioner and then provides for a shorter ethernet cable to reattach to your streamer (In my case the Aurender A10.)  My local dealer demoed this contraption that they affectionately call the Transparent Widget.  Of course the 1 meter piece of ethernet cable happened to be Transparent's $275 cable so total cost would be $430.  They streamed Tidal and Qobuz (16/44.1) for the demo and both I and another customer did hear a significant improvement in SQ.  The dealer said it had something to do with "draining" the noise.  FYI in case any of you have local Transparent dealers and want to listen for yourselves.  

Regarding Tidal, it was interesting to learn that there is a difference in apps between Desktop and Android.  I would still like to know what the "Exclusive Mode" brings to the table and if non MQA DACS are in any way affected by the MQA Passthrough.

Have a look at Network Acoustics ENO. An Ethernet RF filter. I’ve heard it as I make it, and it really transforms streaming. 

Lots of options here, IMO.  I got good improvements in streaming sq with these changes:

• Replaced Comcast cable router with a Motorola MG7550
• Added a DJM Gigafoil v4 ethernet filter
• Router to Gigafoil cable: Blue Jeans Cable cat6a ethernet cable
• Gigafoil to Streamer cable:  Sablon Panatela Reserva
• Sbooster LPS on both Gigafoil and Motorola router

Some cable routers with intel chipset can be extremely noisy.  Great thread here:  https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/cable-modems.30094/.   Special thanks to @david_ten for that one.

The Gigafoil internally converts ethernet-to-optical and then back to ethernet.  The premise being that converting the signal to optical will remove any build up of clock and/or power noise at that point.

In my system, the above was a significant sq improvement for streaming Deezer and Qobuz via my DCS Network Bridge.

@veroguy I love my Gigafoil (w/LPS) and just ordered another for my second system. Also had an EtherRegen upstream just ahead of the router. I recently added the ENO Ag after the Gigfoil and right before my Streamer. I felt I didn't need the EtherRegen anymore. However I don't have my router powered with an LPS. Did you try A/B'ing with and without the LPS on your router? I don't want to invest in another power supply if it isn't necessary.
-Alex

@rareace , I didn't do a formal A/B with LPS on the router.   But I remember a slight uplift in SQ.  At the time, I was using Netgear Powerline adaptors to get ethernet to my streamer from the router. (this uses house electrical wire to send packets)   I was having intermittent dropouts.  The LPS on the router solved it.  So the change did "something".  I no longer use the Powerline stuff, and run a long cable to the streamer.

In theory, with the Gigafoil downstream it shouldn't matter.  I should A/B router LPS.  If I do, I'll report back.

Thanks for sharing your experience of using the ENO after the gigafoill. I've been considering it.  I'm going to try it out now.  I think the Gigafoil is a great, but little-known, product.  Thanks for sharing the etheregen experience, too.  Been wondering how it stacked up against the GFv4.

@veroguy Sounds good. Let me know if you do!

For those wanting to save some money compared to @audioengr‘s solution: inserting an Apple Airport Extreme to your ethernet and connecting it to the server via a Meicord ethernet cable achieves much the same thing for not much money

@veroguy  Have you considered adding a network switch after your router but before your Gigafoil?  I have a similar setup to yours...Router to BJ Cat6 cable to Gigafoil v4 (HDPLEX LPS) to AQ Diamond to my DAC.  I've been reading up on network switches...and was curious if you've tried it before.....The Gigafoil was my latest addition and I'm happy with the results so far!  

I have heard significant improvements in sound quality by adding the following to my Ethernet set-up:

(1) An English Electric 8Switch after a 50-foot run of BJC Cat 6a cable coming from my router.

(2) The high quality Network Acoustics streaming Ethernet cable connected to the switch  

(3) The Network Acoustics ENO filter, with its short built-in cable coming out of the ENO and connecting to my Innuos server/streamer.

This configuration is very similar to the pre-streamer approach described by @audioengr earlier in this thread, but I am using a different network switch, different Ethernet cables, and the ENO filter rather than the EMO isolator. I directly compared the isolator to the ENO filter in my system, and the ENO filter was significantly better at removing harshness and noise while allowing realistic high-frequency "life" and "sparkle" to come through. Other network switches may be a bit more or a bit less effective than the EE 8Switch in improving sound quality, depending on the cost/design of the unit and the power supplies used. As usual, cables matter, too, but the Network Acoustics streaming cable is an excellent cable and has worked well for me.

@calgarian5355  - I was considering adding a switch to my chain that includes the gigafoil v4.

But I bought the ENO a few months ago, and it was an uplift in SQ.  Very happy with the surprising results - knowing how the gigafoil works.

At first, I wasn't too impressed with the ENO.  By itself, it was good - about on par with the gigafoil by itself.  But together, it was a step backwards.  As a test, i switched out the ethernet cable between the gigafoil and the ENO (Sablon Panatella) with a Blue Jeans cable.  There we go!

Weird that the Sablon cable didn't play nice when used with those two devices.  Maybe it and the Blue Jeans have different grounding techniques?

I'm thinking about trying the Network Acoustics cable.  Overall, I can endorse the ENO with the Gigafoil as an improvement, in my system.

Speaking of switches, if anyone interested in exploring the ‘next’ level of improvement in streaming, should check out Telegärtner’s M12 switches. Both ‘Magic’ and ‘Gold’ are now considered the new benchmark in ethernet switches.

I’ve just added M12 Gold Switch and the improvements were far from subtle, in fact a game changer in my system. The M12 replaced both EE8 and ENO Filter w/Ag LAN Cable in my system.

Improving streaming SQ

Improve???
Tell the streaming/download companies what the provenance of the recording is that they are going to stream/download to you. Then you have the choice to take it or not.

Same album original and re-issues
https://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Traveling+Wilburys&album=

Cheers George