+1 (mostly) yogiboy
1.Any Vintage Luxman rosewood finished receiver!
2.Any East Coast Sound speaker, AR, Advent, ADS, etc.!
3. Any Micro-Seiki turntable with any Grado cartridge!
Perhaps an AR ES-1 table. I like belt tables and believe the MS is direct drive, otherwise, it's spot on. Luxman rosewood receivers are great (owned several). Ignore those saying otherwise, they're lucky to have opposing digits and teeth.
If your were to assemble a vintage system ?
Let’s say you were going to put together a vintage system and your source was primarily vinyl. Your price limit is $1500. What would it be?
Make it as musical as possible. Super detail or thunderous bass isn’t going to be very high on the list. My first thought would be a 70’s Marantz receiver (50ish wpc is more than adequate) an 80’s AR table, and any iteration of a Vandersteen 2C that didn’t bust the budget.
Could easily also swap in a Pioneer SX750 instead of a Marantz.
Cartridge? Not sure- might actually go with something modern/current. AT or Nagaoka
what would you put together?
Make it as musical as possible. Super detail or thunderous bass isn’t going to be very high on the list. My first thought would be a 70’s Marantz receiver (50ish wpc is more than adequate) an 80’s AR table, and any iteration of a Vandersteen 2C that didn’t bust the budget.
Could easily also swap in a Pioneer SX750 instead of a Marantz.
Cartridge? Not sure- might actually go with something modern/current. AT or Nagaoka
what would you put together?
77 responses Add your response
Tutta la serie SA (caratterizzata da circuitazione discreta, alimentatori e condensatori sovradimensionati), fu la fortuna di Pioneer.
Questo, partendo dal piccolo SA 402, che a dispetto della potenza dichiarata e delle ridotte dimensioni, é oggettivamente una macchina che sorprende in quanto a Potenza e linearità quasi assoluta.
Per attivare all SA 9900(top di gamma), una progettazione di rilievo ineguagliabile tra i pari classe dell'epoca.
In casa Pioneer tra metá degli anni 70 e per tutti gli anni 80 vi fu un importante sforzo tecnico per imporsi a livello mondiale ed il traguardo di tale sforzo é intitolato SA.
In questo commento non vi annoio con le caratteristiche tecniche di questi apparecchi(si possono facilmente reperire in rete),benché anche se queste ultime sono la vera vetrina di ogni SA, affermo con massima onestà che i dati dichiarati sono molto prudenti, probabilmente misurati in momenti di utilizzo gravosi(immagino a lunghi periodi di alta erogazione di corrente in un ambiente con alte temperature), ed anche arrotondati per difetto... Difatti nell'uso quotidiano, questi amplificatori, senza ombra di dubbio si spingono almeno il 30%in più,( o in meno sul dato distorsione armonica); confrontando in laboratorio, i dati reali a quelli dichiarati la forbice é ampia a favore del reale.
Con tale serie Pioneer arrivó all apice della sua qualità costruttiva che poi man mano divenne più "consumer " negli anni 2000......praticamente grazie all' SA, la casa nipponica campó di rendita un ventennio, ovviamente con una notevole e costante discesa qualitativa, riprendendo le redini solo intorno al 2010 con lo sviluppo di nuovi progetti ad amplificazione fredda (digitale). Progetti che nonostante gli sforzi prodotti dall 'azienda, ad oggi ancora non si sono affermati con il dovuto consenso degli utilizzatori.
Fatta questa doverosa premessa, voglio parlarvi dell' apparecchio che più si affermò in tutta la serie SA.
Tra l' SA 402 e l'SA 9900, esiste l'SA 606. Esattamente come i suoi tanti fratelli maggiori e minori, quindi conservando le stesse qualità tecnico-costrittive, fu l'apparecchio più venduto in quegli anni; il giusto compromesso tra potenza qualità ed estetica. Quest'ultimo aspetto nel 606, grazie ai suoi grandi occhi illuminati(v-meter), su di un prezioso pannello di alluminio spazzolato (oggi solo questo pannello porterebbe i costi di produzione alle stelle), permise l'espandersi di questa elettronica in tutto il mondo.
In virtù di quanto sopra, dobbiamo ritenerci fortunati perché é solo grazie a questo ( fino a ieri, visti i grandi numeri di vendite, esiste ancora una grande offerta sul mercato ), che riusciamo ancora sull'usato a spuntare prezzi da radiolina per un amplificatore assolutamente AUDIOPHILE .( Affrettatevi, dico fino a ieri perché nell'ultimo anno le cose stanno cambiando sull'usato vi sono stati incrementi di prezzo fino al raddoppio).
Chiudo dicendo che questa elettronica é capace di erogare un suono rotondo e deciso sui bassi e degli alti cristallini ariosi e leggeri il tutto con una velocità da primo della classe. Fino ai 10watt ( i suoi 10 watt sono veramente tanti) eroga in Classe A , e vi assicuro che non ha nulla da invidiare ad un amplificatore valvolare; anzi......riesce a pilotare anche i diffusori più ostici con estrema nonchalance.
Ragazzi, ne ho provate tante di elettronica, ma la serie SA ed in particolare il 606, HA LASCIATO IL SEGNO. Se state considerando di passare ad un apparecchio HI-End, siete sulla giusta strada.
Spero che tale commento vi sia utile. Grazie.
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+1 @austinstereo "This is right in the wheelhouse of our little shop here in Austin. We restore pre 1980 amps, receivers, and turntables for clients. And in our mind, "vintage" ends around 1980. A few suggestions.First, any vintage amplifier or receiver should have recently replaced electrolytic capacitors. It’s a waste of time otherwise. No doubt the reason that some have had bad experiences with period gear. You won’t hear it as intended otherwise.Some speakers age better than others. Classic Klipsch usually need little or no attention, many other mid centuries use foam surround and NPE capacitors that need replacing.Unless vintage cart has a new (not NOS) OEM stylus, it’s best to go with new here. Hard to beat an Ortofon 2M Red or Blue for the money.Some examples with alternates we think will take on many a more expensive modern one:Turntable: Technics SL1200II / P2 as alternateAmplifier: Sansui AU 717 / Luxman R-1050Speakers: ADS L 710 / Klipsch Heresy (original)This particular combos might be tricky to keep in the OPs budget, but it would be well worth it. " Klipsch ( $400 +) updates from Crites DIY + $100 also receiver choice : sub 40 watt Marantz to keep down costs even 25 or 26 will do fine <$400 should leave you ^600 for the TT + new cartridge and economical cables. This is a No Fuss system - that will sound sublime. |
Zavato, If you ask me about a vintage system and if music is #1 on the criteria, I would recommend you pick up a Fisher tube integrated amp or a Fisher tube receiver. There are many models to choose from and all are great sounding. IMO, you will really get a lot of enjoyment and performance out vintage Fisher tube equipment. |
A buddy of mine used to run a Marantz 8B amp into a late 70's pair of KEF Calindas. It was magic. Sheer magic. For a vintage system, I'd take either a pair of Calindas, or its big brother, the Cantata, and pair it with a Bob Latino updated Dyna ST-70. That would be sweet and you wouldn't have to rob a bank to pay for it. |
I suggest a Pioneer receiver that has been refurbished. Modern caps a d transistors do a wonderful job of elevating these units, as well as prolonging their life. Then some bigger Klipsch or AR speakers. Preferably with "modded" crossovers and some internal bracing/damping. A Denon DP35f with a modern AT cart. Add a Raspberry Pi streamer/dac setup a d you'll be happy! Ask me how I know...... |
What I owned in about 1976 I would clearly buy again: advent 300 receiver $270 rogers LS3/5a- $595 B&O turntable (not the linear tracking) $375 then since you can split the advent as a preamp, add a used EL34 tube amp. I had a marantz 8 that I paid $225 for, or you could find a dynaco ST70 for a similar price, or a Conrad Johnson MV45 for a bit more money. total cost ~$1500 |
I am in the process of recreating my first real stereo system (to the greatest extent possible). A Sansui 5000X receiver with 60 strong watts per channel, a Thorens TD-160 turntable, a Teac RTR, (original was a 4010-SL, went with an A-4300SX this go-round). Original speakers were Pioneer CS-88As, trying to pick up a pair this weekend, but will also use a pair of Genesis Physics Model 1s and a pair of EPI 100Vs. Cheating a little by using an Adcom GCD-700 run through an MSB Link III DAC. You would be surprised how good the sound is with the Genesis speakers - very tube-like and involving. Definitely not a high-res rig, but the enjoyment factor is through the roof due to the time-traveling sensation. And the components' appearance puts many of today's black boxes to shame. |
For a good sounding inexpensive system a good starting point would be the NAD 3020 integrated. Not a lot of power by it's specs but could drive most speakers of the era quite well. The Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble system (2 woofers and 2 satellites), if attention is paid to set up, is also quite good. They have the advantage of not having foam surrounds so may not need much in the way of refurbishment. For a turntable, the AR is a good choice, as are many of the Duals of the era (e.g., the 505-2). Shure cartridges (like the M91ED or V15 Type III) and the Stanton 681 series are decent and good quality aftermarket styli are available. There were many good FM tuners in the '70's and '80's. A Sansui TU717 would fill the bill nicely but, given the decline of broadcast radio, for that particular function you might want to break down and get an inexpensive streaming system (something like a Bluesound Node 2i). |
I'd start right here.... magnificent sound then .. 30 years ago, and magnificent still. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-of-Acoustat-Model-Spectra-1100-Electrostatic-Speakers/174192845960?has... or https://www.ebay.com/itm/ACOUSTAT-MK-141-B-Speakers-PAIR/353404753349?hash=item52489095c5:g:2~AAAOSw... the first takes wall warts for power to the interface so be sure they are included. After that I'd go for big power, the more the better. They have a love affair with MOSFET amps .. very high synergy so that if possible... if not high power anything and revisit later. You should still have $300 or $400 left at this point for a table and some variety of pre for the cartridge. You will have a system you can build with later. |
When I started college (1971) my parents offered to buy me a new (to me) car. Had a '64 VW that was good enough for me so, I inquired about a 'new' stereo system. Reluctantly agreed.... McIntosh MAC1700 (who needs AM?) $600 JBL L-100s $550 Pioneer PL-A25 w/ Shure M91E? Pretty sure both were less than $350 together. Of course these were 1971 prices but came in under $1500. For nostalgic purposes, I still have this system today. Put way more into them since. Lived in an old house (by Phoenix standards) built in the 20's or 30's. Wooden floor, 12" thick adobe walls and a 12' ceiling. It would really rock that place. |
I’m actually doing that right now. I’ve been a Hafler fan for years. I’ve got a mint XL-280 fresh from tuneup from ‘85. I finally found a Hafler 945 preamp that’s in transit to my home ( mom still has my SE100 preamp). I’m just completing my restore of a beautiful pair of KEF Reference 104/2 in Cherry today. I’ve replaced the internal wiring with Kimber, rebuilt the T33 tweeters, new center surrounds. I’ll put my old Denon DVD900 back in service. Speakers wired up with 10 gauge wire, PBJ interconnects. At 4 ohm, the Hafler puts out 200 watts…more than enough for playtime. The KEF $350 plus $75 for parts The Hafler 945. $250 Denon DVD-900 owned Hafler xl-280 owned Cables owned Should be a lovely two channel listen. |
@filipedine You're right, extensive service is needed before equipment of this age will perform as intended. But not quite this extensive. Certainly all electrolytic capacitors in the amp and power supply stages. Some small signal transistors such as the differentials in Pioneer and Marantz degrade from heat more than age. In certain makes and model, we have seen resistors degrade. Non polar capacitors typically need not be replaced. Some exceptions are the early Sprague "bumble bees" in tube gear. Operating tube gear with failing capacitors can lead to very bad things. It has not been our experience that power transistors need to be replaced, unless there was a catastrophic failure. A "blown" channel. Same for power resistors. Although some diodes are replaced, many can be retained. Failure of power rectifiers for example is pretty rare, and these do not normally need replacement. As for fuses, they do not normally need replacement. A blown or damaged fuse is however a potential sign of serious trouble. Fuses do NOT normally fail. Replacing and powering up in some cases can cause irreparable damage. If you are buying vintage gear, it's a safer bet to get a piece of equipment that has already been through a restoration process by an experienced technician, than to buy an unserviced piece. Otherwise, buy with the idea that hundreds of dollars of work could be in your very near future. |
Hi, I don’t want to take you away from building a Vintage system because there is a lot of stuff you can do with this gear, that produce great systems, but it has a some challenges. All componentes degrade on the power amp and line stage , so stuff like DC on the outputs, squash of the frequency response and dinâmics should be reviewed. Consider the possibility of placing new caps, new fuses, new power transistors, new diode with no ripple effect etc... etc... mall this has a cost that need to be factored on top of the purchase price unit. In my experience, every componente that you by should be serviced and improved. So the idea is to by at a low price to then be able to service it properly. You will also need to find a good technician that is familiar with the models/brand you are buying, has he will help/avise you in improving the unit without major increases in cost. Has vintage system I would go for a pre-power combo. Has a pre amplifier I would probably use a Marantz from series 21xx. For power I would get one or a pair of Rega Maia. Speakers might be a challenge has you wont be able to audition them, so probably would go for a Monitor Audio R-352. Hope this helps Filipe |
I would start in 1973, when I bought and built a Dynaco SCA-80Q at the desk in my dorm room at UW-Madison. My roommate and I each bought a pair of The Smaller Advent Loudspeaker from the "Happy Medium". We agreed to split the system. He bought a Dual 1215, probably with a Shure M91E. I know that many of you might sneer at the Dynaco SS amp, but it was a learning experience. When we split up as roommates, I bought an AR XB, which I still have, albeit with a Grace 707 arm in its current incarnation. I have arrived back at a pair of Smaller Advents paired with a Knight Kit KA-40 16Wx2 tube amp that my Dad originally built in 1959-60. It is my workshop stereo, enjoyed almost daily while I work. Mostly streaming now, from digital files on an iMac connected through an Apogee Duet. It is really enjoyable system! The Duet dates from my silly project of digitizing all my vinyl instead of listening to it. I stopped when the law of diminishing returns was applied. My main system is Linn, 1983 LP12, Accurate Kontrol, AV5125, Active Keilidhs, Mac Mini, iFi Nano iOne. Both systems are enjoyable in their own way. I play around with Amarra, BitPerfect, Tidal, Spotify, Apple etc. but the above law applies to that as well. Started with LP12, Kans and Denon power amps in the 80-90s, then to Arcam electronics, then to Linn. Not exactly an answer to OP's query, but I'm still enjoying authentic vintage gear that has withstood the test of time. Plus, my 95 year old Dad loves that I have his old gear and use it! |
Marantz 1060, can be had fairly inexpensively 500.00 . With a little patience and solder, recapping is 125.00. A Thorens TD160 with a MM cartridge is about 600.00. Two Fostex FE166NV full range drivers 225.00 and a couple of sheets of 3/4" Baltic Birch for a set of double horns $150.00. Bit over budget at 1600, but would be a very satisfying set up. |
@austinstereo Good separates, HK or otherwise, would likely blow this budget. Indeed today they would. Amp alone is $2k for one that needs repaired. I figure it may have in the 70’s when I bout the 730. But I suspect the budget of 1500 is still pretty tight. MSRP on the 730 was $425. BTW, I messaged you about the 730. |
@artemus_5 You're right, the HK 730 is an excellent unit. If you already own one, these are well worth having redone, or buying one. If you don't, just as with an old car, a buyer would be better off getting one that has already been restored. Good separates, HK or otherwise, would likely blow this budget. |
Amazed that no one has mentioned Harmon Kardon. Also amazed how many liked Pioneer. I never heard one that I liked and I heard a lot of them. And I cringe at Luxman. Worst purchase of my life. But we all have different preferences and hearing I suppose. I had/still have a HK 730 twin powered receiver that I believe would shame some modern separates. But It NEEDS to be recapped and some minor repair. So you MUST include that cost in any purchase, which jeopardizes that $1500 limit. Friends, This stuff is 40 + years old. That said, my system would consist of HK Citation amp & maybe preamp Infinity Speakers Technics 1200 TT Sorry, I don't have model #'s |
Braun speakers (719 or 810) ADS too. Marantz 2225 with the VU meters Thornes TT? Something. All on eBay and with in you range. BUT!!!! I’d get new for the down time and future hidden costs that are certainly part of the rig. You’d have to stream. Peachtree makes an intergrated with bluetooth (use yr. phone or laptop). There are others too. Maybe some klipsch speakers new or used. Lots of used cables/speakers to snag. With lamp cord vintage it is! Caveat emptor! |
This is right in the wheelhouse of our little shop here in Austin. We restore pre 1980 amps, receivers, and turntables for clients. And in our mind, "vintage" ends around 1980.
A few suggestions.
First, any vintage amplifier or receiver should have recently replaced electrolytic capacitors. It’s a waste of time otherwise. No doubt the reason that some have had bad experiences with period gear. You won’t hear it as intended otherwise. Some speakers age better than others. Classic Klipsch usually need little or no attention, many other mid centuries use foam surround and NPE capacitors that need replacing. Unless vintage cart has a new (not NOS) OEM stylus, it’s best to go with new here. Hard to beat an Ortofon 2M Red or Blue for the money. Some examples with alternates we think will take on many a more expensive modern one: Turntable: Technics SL1200II / P2 as alternate Amplifier: Sansui AU 717 / Luxman R-1050 Speakers: ADS L 710 / Klipsch Heresy (original) This particular combos might be tricky to keep in the OPs budget, but it would be well worth it. |
I would acquire a Quad 405 amp and a Quad 33 preamp, then rebuild them and add the DC/delay option offered by Dada. For a turntable, a Technics SL-7 and some P-mount Ortofon cartridge or a Thorens TD-150 or the like and an Ortofon M2 Blue. Speakers are a challenge. The budget would probably not allow AR-LST's, but maybe AR-3a's or that failing, Dynaco A-25's. I'd make my own cables as I have always done.Note: I have done the amp and preamp rebuilds and they perform very well in my current system. |
I've got a vintage system that includes a Thorens turntable from 1985 - TD 166 mk2 mated to a Sumiko blue point #2 cartridge. But I never understood why audiophiles use the term "musical" to describe the sound of a certain hi-fi component when music is what they play over their system. I mean, doesn't it all sound "musical?" |
From my collection of vintage gear this is what I am listening to: Ariston RD11 TT/FR29 arm/ADC magnesium headshell/Coral Sleeping Beauty MC cartridge, RGR 4 preamp, Sumo Andromeda amp, DCM Time Windows (52779,52780), Mitsubishi DA-F10 tuner. SUT is new and custom-made. Speaker wire is Q Audio Time Stream from the 80's. CD player is a 1997 Marantz CD67. The overall SQ is competitive with any of today's five-figure systems! |
