i wouldn't want to even know what ones were involved. a blank slate.
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Why would you want to do that? Unless of course. you just wanted to know the best speaker for that room, in that exact spot, with a particular amp and cables, on that particular day/night and with only a couple of audiophile tracks. Audition promising speakers at a dealer, take home something promising and set it up correctly and see if you could live with or it really is the one. You should perform these steps sighted of course.
First...I'm asking for recommendations to include in a shootout like we did for small speakers in 2007. That blind shootout was for standmounts under $1,000. THere were 11 speakers. The panel will NOT know what speakers are in the shootout. Also, please be specific with model numbers and their prices. Example: "I'd like to include the Mojosmasher RX10m for $2,795".
As we always say, no one should make a buying decision based on the results of a shootout, even though we perform full measurements on them as well. It's very true that the results will be dependant on one room and one very high resolution system. But there will be five different sets of ears and their attendant listening biases. And, of course, direct comparisons of speaker vs speaker in the same category. Like all tests or opinions, there are advantages and disadvantages. This is just one approach to help people make the most informed decisions when it comes to auditioning speakers not buying them. It has the potential to help narrow down the time needed to audition speakers. And it is also loads of fun to discuss and debate.
So please do some serious thinking about standmount speakers for $3,000 or less. If YOU were choosing the speaker candidates, what would they be?
I'm not crazy about shootouts where all speakers are driven by the same system unless it can be established up front that the system is equally well matched for each case.
Without this pre-requisite in place beforehand, the results are biased and of limited value to the consumer.
With it, the results can have meaning as long as technically how well the speakers match to the system can be assessed and that information published along with the results.
Otherwise, people looking for real useful information will be mislead to expect certain things with these speakers on their systems and in their rooms, which are different, and have stronger chance of being disapointed in reality.
Can you tell us the exact system that would be used and some general room characteristics? That will make a difference regarding which speakers should be considered in the target price range.
First, yes. You can actually SEE the system used since it will be the same as our last shootout. Here's the link:
Second,just like last time, each speaker will also be fully measured with the charts published.
Third, each speaker will also get its own individual review in yet a different system, room and reviwer.
Perhaps that's why our shootouts are so well respected.
You said, "Otherwise, people looking for real useful information will be mislead to expect certain things with these speakers on their systems and in their rooms, which are different, and have stronger chance of being disapointed in reality."
"Stronger chance of being disappointed" than what? Having no information at all? We think 5 people hearing them in the same room with the same system listening to music that spans classic orchestral, jazz, male & female vocal and others, with the added full measurements AND an individual review by a single reviewer in his own room with his own system adds up to rather good information for our readers...don't you? Is it perfect? Flawless? Of course not. Nothing is. But in these cases, the object is the more accurate and unbiased info you can get, the better. Make sense?
If you know the brands in the blind shootout, is the shootout really blind?
Great question! No, it would NOT be if I were one of the judges. But I am not. The judges will not know the speakers in the shootout. We go to great lengths to keep them hidden. We make the judges leave the room between rounds so that they cannot accidentally see something during setup or even hear the white noise when we do the level matching.
Let me explain something else
Here's why we need specific model numbers:
We have a list of specific speakers submitted by our readers and fro sites like audiocircle, agon and others. The specific models that get the most "votes" or are ost requested will be the first ones requested from the manufacturers until our quota is met. So, if you just request a brand name and not a specific model, we throw it out.
Also, we cannot use speakers from AV123 or Usher because we have contracted with GR Research to do our indepedent measuring and to facilitate the shootout. GR works with AV123 and Usher so there is a conflict of interest.
Hope this helps - and thanks for the good suggestions!
Having each set up and reviewed in an optimized environment also sounds much better.
The OHMs in the $3000 range specifically would be the OHM 200 Series 3. These target "medium" sized rooms as defined on the OHM site. If the shootout room is smaller, OHM 100 Series 3 at ~ $1700 would be the ones. Significant break-in time is required to sound best, particularly with the larger models.
What would be better? Individual review? We're doing that. Prolonged listening? We're doing that. Measurements? check.. Yes...listening in your own home is always the best. This will just help narrow down or add some choices. The more information you have, the better. If you can't see that, it's ok. Besides..even if it were only entertainment, can't we all use a little these days? :)
As cited in your small speaker shootout already, it may not be in the interest of better established and already well reviewed vendors to participate and risk looking bad for the purpose of "entertainment". These things are highly subjective after all. There has to be a benefit in it for the vendor. The vendors who participated in that one were largely not household names, so it'll be interesting just to see who participates. I suspect the higher the target price range, the fewer vendors that would be willing to have their products perceived value diminish.
From the consumer's perspective, I have no objection to entertainment exhibitions as long as it is presented that way, much like with pro wrestling these days.
The difference is the large variety of individual comments and observations available via sites like this. If you read enough comments and observations, good or bad, accurate or inaccurate, eventually patterns will emerge that are more reliable indicators of truth than any subjective observations from a small and supposed unbiased panel of experts. Its just basic probability theory at work.
No reason why a shootout cannot add to the body of info available, but it is just one sample out of a much larger body of experience and information available out there these days via the wonder of the Internet.
HAving said that, I personally would love to see such a shootout involving leading or most highly regarded brands/models for both informational and entertainment reasons and I think many would find such a thing very interesting.
Where do I volunteer?
I firmly believe that a well executed article that compares a handful or so like-products can actually be useful potentially even more-so than a singular product review. That said, the reason why such articles are rarely done is because they require an extreme amount of time and resources to do properly. Beyond facets of subjectivity that surround panel members hearing capacity and personal taste, there are more pressing matters as to whether or not a product is being fairly represented, matters such as:
Will the listening space be able to accommodate each loudspeaker to ensure that none will be left at a disadvantage?
Will you have a breadth of components on hand to achieve a good (confirmed) synergy with all the loudspeakers under review in order to attain a solid idea of what they can and cannot do?
Will you have reps from each manufacturer at the event so they can ensure that their product is set up as best as possible in that particular listening space?
The thing is Jim, if done the wrong way - such articles do far more harm than good. If the answer to the above is no or even a yes, but.. than honestly, all youre doing is setting yourself up for questionable conclusions that will help neither the consumer nor the manufacturer. If Stereomojos past work is any indication of what we can expect to see in this comparison, than its looking like this will be yet another article not to be taken seriously. Entertainment value aside, these contests that Stereomojo conduct bring almost nothing of merit to the table. Unless things have changed (and I hope that they have), I can only hope that folks in this industry have smartened up and will stay far, far away.
"Where do I volunteer". What a wonderful spirit. People who spend their time criticizing those who actually do something for their fellow men but do nothing themselves are the bane of a free society. Talk is cheap. Positive actions are priceless. Stereomojo is just a group of experienced people who do a lot of work for no money to benefit others who share our passion. That's it. It's frustrating to have to spend our precious time dealing with people who never get off their butts to do anything but sit around and criticize others - in public no less. Why? To make themselves look important and knowledgeable. I'm glad their are people like you who see through it all.
If you think our past shootouts are not taken seriously, just google STEREOMOJO SHOOTOUT and see the comments from all over the word.
Just an example:
音樂大廳:: Search - [ Translate this page ]
15 posts - 6 authors - Last post: Oct 4, 2006
onkyo也有!! 我當初是看這篇文章燃起了試試的想法. The great digital amp shootout http://www.stereomojo.com/SHOOTOUT2007INTEGRATEDS.htm ...
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Just for fun...
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Digital Amp Shootout 2007 - Integrated Δικάναλοι Ενισχυτές. ... Το Stereomojo φιλοξενεί συγκριτική δοκιμή Class-D και Class-T ολοκληρωμένων ενισχυτών. ...
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trong đợt shootout giữa mấy cái digital amp trên stereomojo thằng này thắng hết mấy cái giá 1k-2k :adore: ...
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