2. amps-preamps
  3. 126361-2163

If I'm looking for "Tube Sound", why would I put a Tube Pre in front of a SS amp?

I'm purposefully not specifying speakers as I would like to know in general terms the arguments for and against. So, to the degree that speaker characteristics could also influence the choice, please  explain.  FWIW, I do not know a phase angle from an impedance curve so I will try and educate myself as we go along.  Hopefully, others may benefit too.
finsup
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
"However, if you really want to treat yourself go with tubes all the way. That way you get the additional benefit of reduced higher ordered harmonic distortion, which to the ear sounds like brighter and harsher, and is the thing with which transistor amplifier designers struggle. "

I would generally agree with the comment above. To me the really big difference AND big deal with tubes vs SS is the harmonic resolution AND that undefinable attribute of "presence" that the BEST tube designs really deliver that I rarely hear consistently with SS. I try to be fair minded, objective and balanced in these discussions but I REALLY agree with Atmasphere's comments. I have a good audio buddy, all tubes over the almost 20 years I've known him that has gone over to the "dark side":), tube preamp, ss amp, i mean superb SS. While I really like the presentation and at times it makes me question things, over time I notice that it just does NOT have the emotional connection to the music as good as it is. To each his own and remember this one simple point, it's all an illusion anyway, whatever floats your boat is most important, just listen and enjoy!
sbank's avatar
sbank
3,378 posts
 
Lots of great comments on this thread. One thing not mentioned is that with tube preamps, most use tubes that are:
- low in number 
- in sizes that plentifully produced by many manufacturers both past & present
- sonically different than other varieties of the same size tube
This leads to the potential sub-hobby of tube rolling. Hearing the differences between e.g. a Mullard vs. Telefunken is fun and interesting in itself, and let's one take the task of finding system synergy to an art form. My old friend and occasional poster, @mechans, shared a tiny portion of his great tube rolling knowledge with me, lending multiple pairs of 6922, 6DJ8 etc. to find out what works best with my gear. For those interested, it's fun and sonically rewarding with good tube preamps especially. Cheers,
Spencer
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,574 posts
 
@sbank you might try out a preamp that uses 6SN7s... once you hear what the 6SN7 does its hard to go back to miniature tubes.
sbank's avatar
sbank
3,378 posts
 
@atmasphere, Ralph, I did own an MP3 for a time. 

My post was intended to bring up the pleasure of tube rolling, nothing more. Cheers,

Spencer
minorl
1,014 posts
 

I have to respectfully disagree with many here. In my humble opinion, It really doesn't matter whether the pre-amp or amp is tubed or solid state.  it matters what the listener likes to hear.

As I have written time and again, there are so absolutely wonderful tubed equipment.  However, there are also some absolutely wonderful solid state equipment.  Speaker-amp interactions aside for a moment (which is hard to do), a good design is a good design.  A good engineer is a good engineer. Unless one purchases a price is no object piece of equipment, each manufacturer has to compromise somewhere.

My point, is don't drink the coolade.  some people have preferences, and after demoing many pieces, they come up with their preference, that is fine.  But, my advice is to set a price point (said this time and again) for a piece of equipment and go find both tube and solid state equipment that the manufacturer says will mate well with your existing equipment and hear for yourself.

I have heard some outstanding tubed pre-amps and amps. Same for solid state.  But to say that tube is better than solid state of visa versa is just simply.....wrong.

Audio Research tubed electronics are wonderful and I own some.  Great stuff.  I also own Mark Levinson equipment.  I've heard Boulder equipment.  Very nice (ridiculously overpriced in my opinion). I haven't hear like priced Pass equipment of Gryphon, etc. 

So for a person to say that one is better than the other, implies that he/she has hear every piece within that price range and that simply isn't true at all.

Don't get me wrong please.  And please, do not attack me.  I like my Audio Research REF 3 pre amp in front of my Mark Levinson 23.5 amps. And yes, the 23.5 amp is still one of the best amps out there for the price.  But, I was finally, after two years convinced to purchase the Audio Research REF 250 amps, because they simply were wonderful.  They couldn't complete with the Mark Levinson on the low end, so my bass drivers on my Martin Logan Monolith III speakers still use the 23.5.

And if I can afford either a REF 5SE or REF6 pre-amp, I would grab it.  Audio Research makes really good equipment. 

But, lets be truthful and real hear.  Tube is better than solid state?  I don't think so.  Nor do I believe that Solid state is better than tube.

Pick a price point, grab some tubed and solid state equipment and hear for your self.

You may decide that a tube pre-amp out performs the solid state pre you compared.  Then, you will know the answer.

You may also find out that the tubed amp in your price range just doesn't do it with your speakers. Oh well.

This is where the fun starts.  It is okay to take someone's advice with regards to auditioning equipment, but please do not buy the theory that one design/configuration is better than the other.

it just ain't so.


enjoy

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