I've narrowed it down...


So my first venture into tube equipment will be an integrated amp based on the recommendations of this fine group of enthusiasts. I have narrowed the field to the Rogue Audio Tempest III, Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum, the Cayin H-80 and Cary SLI-80.

All of this is based on what I have read and what fits in my budget. The Cary is a little over but for something I think I'll have for a lifetime I'm willing to go a little over...

I will be driving B&W 602S3's until more $$$ are available for something else.

My intent is to listen to vinyl then maybe venture into CD's or digital music. Any feedback or suggestions are appreciated.

Going somewhere to listen to any of these is not an option for me, and room size is undetermined as I am in the process of moving.

Thanks.
botit

Showing 8 responses by mikirob

Yes, do change speakers, I'm biased toward the Cary's (own or have owned several different models over the years). You might want to read the chat on Zu vs Tekton Lore.
Unsound, what you say is normally correct, but if a person wishes to go the tube route and has incompatible speakers for tubes shouldn't fellow members here tell the potential tube buyer that information? Then he can go find the speakers that he likes that are synergistic with tubes; and by-the-way, many people know for example that they prefer tubes to SS after hearing tubes, but might not understand that their current speakers are not a match made in heaven, so, the reverse of your normally correct theory is reversed. As the old saying goes, " more than one way to skin a cat."

I knew that I wanted SET 300B sound, loved the Cary house sound, bought the amp and went out and found the right speakers to match up with them, not more difficult to do than the other way around.
Unsound, you don't get it, or misread my post, where I basically agreed with your premise under ideal conditions. So, let me give you another example where it might not work out that way.

Let's say I'm a newby like we all were at one time. I put good money into a SS amp like Threshold, SS Pre, big name brand inefficient speakers and ancillaries. Then, over time after listening to many pals systems, going to some dealers in my area and the big Audiophile shows I realized I liked the sound of low-powered SET tubes best of all and wanted to make the transition from SS to tubes.

What to do? I have a bunch of funds tied up in my SS rig and modest funds available to me, yet since I've done some preliminary thinking, at least I know I want tubes, I'm going to liquidate my SS stuff on Audiogon and elsewhere. While I'm in the process of doing that selling, a friend offers me a really good name brand SET tube amp, that I have heard and really like with various speakers, the price is good and I can afford it. I take the plunge and purchase it. Now I have the amp and know I must find a synergistic speaker match for my listening room and my listening preferences. Of course I have a pretty good idea where to Start.

So, in short the chicken or egg can go in either direction. It might depend on your individual circumstances. So, what is the big deal about auditioning speakers with an amp I know I already like. Not any harder than buying the speaker first and finding an amplifier IMHO.
Unsound, so why don't you give some concrete scientific back-up to that reasoning. In the real-world what I stated is the more likely scenario as to Charles1Dad attests; this is also my real-world scenario. My father and uncles all had great tube systems in their day. Me, I started with SS, was very unhappy, something was always missing, it just wasn't right for me. The more tube systems I heard, the more I understood what I was missing. My parents and several relatives are musicians, I am also, among other things, know what "real" music sounds like. In the professional music world I and most of my colleagues didn't ' select speakers first, we bought the guitars, musical instruments we liked, then the Marshals, Vox, etc.

How and why should a person say, oh, I must, it's mandatory to go speaker first? Say you inherit an amp. You don't take it because you don't have your ideal speakers? When I got my first SET amp I had big inefficient speakers that I had to change. No big deal, no harder to do that than doing it the other way around.

How and why do you believe this theory of yours?
That's the point, it goes either way depending on fiat and personal circumstances for most people. If I were a newby like everyone once was, I'd likely would first have to ask myself this question: SS or tubes? Say I chose SS. Ok, what speakers? For argument sake say, Maggie's 1.7. OK, I do research and work with dealer to try stuff that is good, synergistic match. I purchase super duper power house amp that Jonathan Valin has blessed as it sounds great in my room to my ears also.

Another scenario: I'm a newby, hear a friends system, it's a Rotel integrated, with Sound Dynamic 300 ti speaker and associated friend shows you Absolute Sound Mag and Harry Pearson article, great speaker to price ratio recessed midrange like electrostatic speaker A. Newby asks, "what's a electrostatic?" Friend explains, adding lots of mumbo jumbo newby doesn't understand, but knows he wants a system like his friend for music. Newby buys most of audio mags, reads all the articles and reviews and talks to his 1 friend that has a decent stereo. Newby travels to the 2 high end dealers he found out about, 100 miles apart and a 2 hr. drive either way. Newby makes the drive to each dealer, one is worse than the other and he finds out his $5,000.00 budget is crap and he is a worthless human being, they, the dealers, have little time for him and brush him off. Newby leaves humiliated and humbled. After some research he learns about John Rutan at Audio Connection in Verona NJ, 3 hrs away; he makes the drive. John is totally unlike the previous dealers, spends tons of time talking and listening with said newby. No sale today, but newby comes back another time and learns more, listens more, knows more. John has been kind and patient. Newby walks out with Vandersteen 2ces, Rotel like his friend, cd player. Newby now knows better amps will make those Vandy's sing better, he just doesn't have the $$$$ dollars yet. But he has learned the Vandy's can go with him through a number of amp upgrades before he'll want to move up the Vandy's food chain and/or other components in his system.

These and other scenarios are more real world process rather than the blanket Speakers First approach, although it works well its not the only way nor necessarily the fastest way to audio nirvana. It's a process, many intended and unintended consequences occur along the way.
Obviously, I agree with Atmasphere here since I am a tube guy; but the discussion is not SS vs Tubes, but what component do you buy first? Speakers or Amp? The real question is SS or tubes to contradict myself. After that decision is made then it's what speaker type will be best.
No, I don't want to go on and on so I won't be checking the archives as it does't really matter that much. I trust the original poster can read between the lines and shall make whatever decision he makes and goes on a similar path as most all audiophiles and music lovers. Best of luck Botit...
Charles1Dad, all one has to do is trust one's own ears in ones own listening room.