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I'm putting to rest worrying about sibilance

I just ran a test on three different turntables I own. I played various recordings, each of which exhibit sibilance to some degree, mostly female vocalists. The three tables are pro-ject the classic with the hana el, music hall mmf7 with factory mounted eroica h, and my brand new thorens td 240-2 with the ortofon om10 also factory installed. My dilemma began with constant worrying about the first table (the pro-ject) as I thought I was hearing a bit of sibilance only on certain records. So I played the very same records, mostly used from thrifts etc, on all three tables and adjusting volume or gain for each. Well, I found that all three table and cartridge combinations exhibit the sibilance in the same parts of songs on each recording. My findings are that what I perceive as higher sibilance on the hana can be contributed to its (imo) better high frequency response. In other words, the other tables and cartridges had the sibilance, but to a lesser prominence, but it WAS there. So my conclusion is that it Is just inherent in the lp medium to some degree, and more so with used records. I have farted around enough with the hana el and I am no longer going to fret over it. I would have a hard time believing that all three tables and cartridges are that badly aligned etc to all cause some sibilance here and there. All three were checked and seem to be dead on. The only table I personally installed cartridge on was the pro- ject (hana el) also, three preamps were tried during testing, my marantz pm14s1 built in, a musical fidelity lx lps, and a pro-ject tube box ds2. Lastly the hana el was adjusted when installed to align with the cartridge body and not the cantilever (just easier imo) using a proper protractor, and the vta was adjusted so that the hana is a bit ass down, as I think the hana sounds right like that. So there is my conclusion. I’ve been reading forum after forum about the sibilance issue somehave, but I think I feel better after doing what I did as described above, and refuse to drive my self nuts any longer!😁
Just to add, the listening was first performed on the other 2 tables, the mmf7 and thorens, again both have factory installed cartridges, also checked by me. In doing so I ruled out the hana inscribing the record grooves with the sibilance in the event its mis aligned, which it is not....
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Showing 2 responses by helomech

helomech
1,494 posts
 
Now that I run a Hana SL, I experience sibilance rarely, and it’s barely noticeable on records that used to be the worst offenders. I’ve noticed the problem is always greater when using a cart with an elliptical stylus. I understand the Hana EL is alleged to be very good for an elliptical, but so is the SS Carmen, and that cart was more sibilant than any line-contact or Shibata stylus I’ve used.

I get that many recordings have sibilance cut into the grooves, but I figure one might as well try to minimize the severity by running a cart with an advanced stylus profile. I’m so through with ellipticals that I’d rather listen to digital than be stuck with one.
helomech
1,494 posts
 
I’m using very good stuff as it is....not about to spend any more money....I think I’ll just deal with it. I’m not in the camp of mortgaging my house to buy audio equipment lol. My amp is 3 grand, my phono amp is 700, yes the speakers are only 500 but imo very nice ( mind you I also have harbeths @ 2200 & spendors @ 1600.). And my cables were not cheap either. My turntables cost 1500 × 2 (project and music hall mmf7, no slouch) and 1200 for the thorens....so yea I think I spent enough. This does not even include all the cartridges i own and headphones and associated amp(s) and dac and sacd player, and cassette decks etc etc etc, oh and media ......cd...lp....cassettes etc. I mean how much more can ya spend before your wife begins scratching her head and then says well weren’t we supposed to take kids to Disney? Lol.....the sibilance is there and is embedded in the grooves. There is no way of getting rid of it period. I’ll send any one of you my Louis prima record on me and u will see what I mean...it is atrocious! Yes, i agree you may be able to lessen it to a degree by spending more on a line contact or shibata or whatever. My eroica h is an 800 dollar cartridge with a rather nice line contact stylus and I still here it to a degree, it has not magically made it disappear. Also, it is very hard to quantify the severity on a forum as I or you are not directly listening to each others set up. Thus maybe i am exaggerating what I am hearing or you are maybe not as sensitive to the sibilance...who knows really. I understand that Fremer spent over 30k for his current turntable with 2 arms....is that what it will take? Lol
I agree that one shouldn't have to spend so much for a great analog rig, but unfortunately that hasn't been my experience. I started with "budget" tables and carts, like the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon and 2MRed/AT95e. Fast forward a few years and I've finally settled on an analog front end that was ~ $5K total. I found that new tables I considered in the $1200 range still had atrocious platter and motor-pulley runout, and/or bearing play in the tonearms. One $2500 table from a popular U.S. brand had loud platter-bearing noise. There's no excuse for these failings in even a $500 table IMO, but that's what I consistently encountered. I finally have a rig that exceeds the SQ of my digital setup, but I honestly think it absurd that I had to spend that much to arrive there.

Anyhow, I wasn't alleging your problem is lack of expenditure, just that elliptical stylus profiles are probably the worst for mitigating sibilance - even worse than the cheaper conical type IME. 

I've also found that exacting cartridge setup can pay huge dividends. If You're using something like the typical two-point protractor, it might be worthwhile to invest in a Mint LP Best Tractor, or try the free arc-protractor software from this site:
http://conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm

I achieved better tracking and overall SQ using a printed arc protractor from that software. I find it works even better than some of the expensive Dennesen-style protractors. 
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